How much should I pay her to keep one Shabbos?

Butterfly07

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 11:37 am

I think the girls mother should offer this girl 'free room and board'!
While living in her parents home, she has to obey their rules -Or she can find a new place to stay! It may sound extreme BUT why is it that little kids think they can rule over adults nowadays?! I met a girl that goes to ncsy who is now off the derech But, whenever she is by her parents home, she makes sure she is tzniut and follows their ways. She respects them but wants a different path in life.
If this girl likes you, maybe you can take her under your wing Smile

show her the beauty! *As per your question: I would ask a Ruv about paying someone to be shomer Shabbos, idk how to hallochikly answer that! GL

imasinger

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 1:11 pm

OP, you are gettng some mixed responses. Let's look at the situation logically.

I imagine that there are reasons that this girl is OTD. Unless the underlying issues are addressed, anything at all is superficial.

Overall, the gesture could be a very nice thing, or it could be a very bad thing.

It would be a nice thing if, at the end of the day, the girl suddenly realized that there was beauty in keeping Shabbos. For a small sum, you might create priceless schar.

OTOH, it would be a terrible thing if she was already turned off to living a halachic life, and now could add scorn for the hypocricy of those who thought observance could be bought. The turnoff could be profound and lifelong. No trifling matter.

Given that there are other ways to inspire that don't pose such risks on the down side, it seems like quite an unwise plan to pay her to keep one Shabbos.

Better to offer to help fund her for a session at Oorah's GirlZone this summer, where she will be with others like herself, and guided by those trained to inspire, without as huge a chance of observance being perceived as hypocritical.

m in Israel

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 3:16 pm

amother wrote:

there is a concept that by doing a mitzva for something we come do to do it for nothing.

Maybe it is something to get the person started.

Many times there is a reason someone does a mitzva, not for money, but for acknowledgement, honor, etc (build a shul, put a name on a school, run or volunteer for an organization). Even Chinese auctions play into this.

I've heard of parent's having a reward system for going to shul, davinening mincha, etc. It creates a pattern and gets someone used to doing something. I don't see this as so different.

Why should a teenager not need the push more then an adult?

If the parent was the one considering paying her, I would hear this argument. But to be taking money from some random friend of her mother is to me a business transaction more than a reward for a job well done. I find that rather disturbing. Overall I'm confused about the mother's role in this. OP, you said the mother is promoting her daughter's "services" by telling you about her previous happy customers??? If the mother thinks it's a good idea to pay her daughter, let her set it up as a reward system within her family, not unlike a chart for a young child. And let her do it as a consistent "mivtzah" ("campaign"). Why is she getting outsiders to "sponsor" her daughter's shmiras shabbos in this way? That is the strangest and most disturbing part of this question, IMO.

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 3:49 pm

I'm going to weigh in and say that you should not pay her. Keeping Shabbos is between her and Hashem. Just like shmiras aynayim is between a man (or woman) and Hashem. I once had a period of time where I would "reward" my husband with expensive purchases if he didn't look at inappropriate things on the internet. This scheme turned out to be dumb and pointless (and expensive).

Every marriage book or rabbi will tell you that as a third party, this is not your fight to fight. It's deep but it's the key to successful marriage and parenting.

naturalmom5

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 3:59 pm

I'm goiung to take a middle of the road approach

Invite her and mother to your house for entire shabbos
Tell her she doesn't have to fellow all the rules this shabbos, but you would greatly greatly appreciate it, as it means a lot to you
If she's does keep the entire shabbos on her own buy her a nice outfit or take her on a really fun trip

MitzadSheini

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 8:43 pm

This question reminded me of a story about a Rabbi who tried to persuade someone to keep Shabbat, and the guy kept on saying that he couldn't afford to keep his business closed one day a week. So the rabbi said that he would buy 1/7th of the business, which he did, and then said that he "owned" the business for 1/7th of the week. The rabbi said they he was entitled to all of the money the business made on Shabbat, and closed the business on Shabbat and took (obviously) none of the guys takings.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 9:01 pm

Imasinger, funny you brought up Oorah. I was thinking of offering to sponsor someone else enjoying Shabbos, e.g. sending money to a kiruv camp or local campus kiruv, etc., in her honor.
(Though the whole idea of the OP is...complicated, on so many levels.)

greenfire

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 10:19 pm

A lot of people pay their kids to do household chores also. This cheapens the idea that one should join in helping out as a form of familial obligation/duty/community.

As naturalmom5 mentioned above, invite her and if you feel she helped toward the kedusha of shabbos - reward her with pizza & ice cream motzei shabbos ... simple yet sincere. Buying clothing will be closer to bribing her to dress tznius. imnsho

Paying anybody to keep shabbos or any other halocha will backfire on all of yous.

m in Israel

Tue, Jan 12 2016, 1:29 am

mtzadhasheini wrote:

This is very different. It was likely a case of someone who b'etzem wanted to keep Shabbos but had a specific nisayon that they were scared of loosing their parnassah. So by eliminating this aspect they were happy to keep Shabbos. There are many similar stories in the U.S. in the early 1900's (I think maybe with R' Herman, tz"l?) where he would ask someone how much money they usually make on Shabbos and offer them that amount so as not to open up on Shabbos. But that was not "paying" them stam to keep Shabbos -- it was compensating them for what to them was a real cost of keeping Shabbos -- in a certain sense similar to offering to pay for someone's matzah if they can't afford it in order that they should do the mitzvah.

amother

Copper

Tue, Jan 12 2016, 7:09 am

Among other things - way too tricky as who is going to have to decide that she in fact did really keep Shabbos?
(and yes I did read the post that the mother said she's "honest"-- even so I hold by the posters who said not a good idea for various reasons though well intentioned.)

chani8

Tue, Jan 12 2016, 10:26 am

amother wrote:

My friend's dd is OTD. She is willing to keep one Shabbos if I pay her. Her mother says her dd is honest and has done this before. How much should I offer to pay her to keep one Shabbos?

I think it's great. I hold by the motto, put your money where your mouth is. Apparently this girl does, too.

How much to pay? How much would a babysitter get for an overnighter? After all, she is babysitting the shobbos.

gittelchana

Tue, Jan 12 2016, 10:44 am

chani8 wrote:

Interesting point.

Although I disagree with you - as stated above - I appreciate the point that you make. We do call it Shmiras Shabbos - babysitting Shabbos LOL