Drabanan and cynicism s/o " I do the bare minimum"

amother

Jetblack

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:43 am

My mother was a "bare minimum" type when it came to certain things. We had Chanuka without latkes and anything that involved too much effort on her part - Shabbos cooking and Shalach Manos on Purim, Pesach, etc.. - was major stress, lots of yelling, etc...

So I purposely do the opposite. I take great pride and joy in cooking for Shabbos, something special every night of Chanukah (latkes, donuts, zeppolis, etc...), Shalach Manos that I bake and prepare with my children participating, etc....Pesach cleaning and cooking is a family affair that ends in trips to 7-11 for slurpees for all participants......

So how do you explain this? I should have been OTD or have no interest in these things, if my mother didn't.

amazingmommy

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:46 am

amother wrote:

Many if not most of kids, end up going the opposite extreme of their parents if there is an unhealthy extreme to any direction.

Amarante

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:50 am

amother wrote:

The things you mention aren't really intrinsic to a belief system.

In the secular world, there are parents who are Martha Stewart types with elaborate celebrations and those who grudgingly and poorly do the basics and slap frozen food on the table instead of cooking.

Many Xtian kids would then have elaborate Xmas trees or make home made treats or wrap presents and have big birthday parties

tigerwife

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:57 am

Making latkes on Chanukah is far from being a mitzva d'rabanan, as far as I know it is a tradition.

I was assuming you meant that, for example, some aspects of shmiras Shabbos are hard because no where in the Torah does it say not to turn on a light, or something like that.

Shalach manos is a mitzva but not making 40 themed baskets with freshly baked goods and expensive wines. So it is ok to let go of community norms, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water and not give anything at all.

I actually find that it is the traditions that make Judaism more special and exciting to children. I know people won't agree with this approach but I feel like as a kid, the Chanukah special foods and parties are more exciting until you are old enough to appreciate the miracles and holiness of the lights.

It's all a matter of knowing what is Halacha and what is chumra, and what is an actual mitzva and what is tradition. It's the blurring of these boundaries that seem to be causing the most angst for many posters here.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 3:16 pm

amother wrote:

None of the things that you mentioned are actual mitzvot. Latkes? Cooking for shabbat, mishloach manot and pesach cleaning. None are actual mitzvot. Please dont think they are. They are things that make other mitzvot or times special, but still not mitzvot.

amother

Jetblack

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 3:50 pm

tigerwife wrote:

I actually find that it is the traditions that make Judaism more special and exciting to children. I know people won't agree with this approach but I feel like as a kid, the Chanukah special foods and parties are more exciting until you are old enough to appreciate the miracles and holiness of the lights.

It's all a matter of knowing what is Halacha and what is chumra, and what is an actual mitzva and what is tradition. It's the blurring of these boundaries that seem to be causing the most angst for many posters here.

This is exactly why I try to make the extras....it's what makes the difference between looking forward to a Yom Tov and...not.

Chayalle

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 4:04 pm

amother wrote:

I keep the mitzvos because I have to. I don't appreciate the very many extra rules. The problem is that I don't want to give across that cynicism to my children when they ask why can't we do certain stuff like eat kitniyos. Any advice?

Speak of minhagim with respect.

We often meet other people who follow different minhagim than our own. We can speak of them with respect even if we don't follow them.

For example, my DD's good friend is Sephardic. Before Pesach they spend hours checking rice before using. We speak of them with respect, for following their customs, even though we don't eat Kitniyos as we are Ashkenazic.

Our Chassidish neighbors wear tights at age 3. We can respect it even if we don't do it. If my kids ask why I say it is not our minhag. Everyone follows their own minhag, which can be based on Mesorah or Minhag HaMakom.

amother

Natural

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 4:23 pm

I think it's the most confusing because some Jews are allowed to do certain things, while other Jews are not allowed. If we all follow the same Hashem we are doing his will and how can some be allowed to and some not. At 120 when someone dies that person goes to hell because he ate kitneos, while his neighbor doesn't because he's 'allowed' to? How do you explain to kids that other JEWS are allowed to do something and they can't because we all follow the same G-d?

amother

Blue

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 4:31 pm

amother wrote:

We all do follow the same G-d , We all share the Torah which is the halachic part of being a jew...we all have the same halachos. It's when certain people confuse halacha with minhag and it causes confusion. Minhag is tradition. The Xtians also have different traditions, yet they are all Xtians....and believe in the same "Son of ...."

5mom

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 4:56 pm

amother wrote:

I doubt whether anyone goes to hell for eating kitniyos. But we do have an obligation to follow tradition, and to respect the fact that Chazal are empowered to explain halacha as they understand it. If you don't see Chazal as having the power to interpret, then you are indeed headed down a difficult path. (And I am not in the camp that asks for daas Torah on everything.) In short, eating kitniyos is not against basic halacha, but disregarding Chazal is.

It's also important to remember that some parts of Jewish life are about sociology and not halacha per se. So long as you know what is what (and not everyone does) that's fine. Ashkenazim from Germany and Ashkenazim from Galicia had different traditions. Of course Ashkenazim and Sefardim have different traditions. And Syrians and Moroccans differ from each other. Religion is a living entity. Even people who think they are upholding tradition to the very last detail aren't living as their grandparents did.

gp2.0

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 5:09 pm

amother wrote:

The short answer is that ALL Jews are allowed to do these things but some Jews CHOOSE not to.

eschaya

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 9:02 pm

I davka choose to do the bare minimum in some categories (TH, cooking and some of the cultural extras mentioned above) specifically so that I do NOT end up being resentful and then passing it on to my children. I use my intellect to distinguish between lechatchila, b'dieved, minhag, and chumrah, and if there is something that is difficult for me or or not part of my personality type (see the current thread on briggs myers, for example!) I can determine whether it is something mandatory - in which case I will do it anyway - or just a nice extra - in which case I will choose not to do it and instead have reduced anxiety or resentment, and project a happier maternal image to my children.
As DH consistantly reminds me every erev pesach, much of what women do nowadays is way beyond the necessary pesach cleaning requirements and is actually more consistent with spring cleaning. So if I am stressed out by the thought of cleaning every bit of grout in the hallway with a toothbrush (as my mother does), then it is 100x better not to do it! So I don't! And my children are just fine with that. Then for Shabbos, there is no halacha that says I need to serve multi-course meals... so I don't. And on Purim, I don't do more than one baked good in the MM since I hate baking... and I've fulfilled halacha just as well as the woman who has the fancy babka as well as the fresh challah and the homemade pickles. Because many aspects of TH cause me anxiety, DH has helped me determine what is truly necessary for me to become tahor, and I don't do any more than that lest my anxiety in that area simmer over into greater resentment.
Choosing to do the bare minimum (in specific areas) is actually my mechanism for ensuring that my kids don't sense any resentment.
OP - it sounds like you probably don't have a good idea of the differences in the levels and categories of the "rules" you describe. You need to learn what is halacha l'chatchila, what is halacha b'dieved, what is minhag and what is chumrah. We typically don't separate d'oraisa and d'rabanan in every day practice (though it my be relevant in specific situations). Once you have the distinctions clear, you and your dh can make the decisions to perhaps be lenient about certain chumras or extras you currently conflate with requirements. Many of the things you seem to view as allowed for some people and not for others may be an issue of chumras or communal norms, which are far from halacha. It would be a shame to resent everything on the basis of a few things.

Chayalle

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 10:09 pm

mazal555 wrote:

Anyway, as a side note I see no precedent that G-d wants the same things from everyone. G-d wants some people to keep 613 mitzvot for example, and some to keep 7. And some people to put on tefilin everyday and some to do bedikot. So maybe G-d wants some people to pray one way and others to pray another.

I remember learning that even in the times of the B"HMK there were different customs among the 12 tribes. Hashem set us up that way, intending that there should be variety. Together we create one harmonious whole - like an orchestra that consists of many different instruments, all of us serving Hashem in our own unique way...