parents at your seder keep telling you to "hurry up"

amother

Brunette

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 2:52 pm

I may end up AMLOR. But on the meantime, this is the question.

We are the only frum people in both sides of our extended family. We have small kids (although not as small as they used to be), so we usually only take 60-90 minutes until we get to motzie. Last year I remember the kids were really getting involved. Giving over divrei Torah . And my father, who is not "elderly" and still works and travels a lot etc (although in his 70s) kept on telling us to hurry up and get on with it. (he's not frum, and he is used to getting his own way). What is the correct way to deal with this?

WaterWoman

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 2:58 pm

Maybe have each child choose one dvar Torah to say during Maggid and save the rest for Shulchan Orech. The mitzvah to tell the story applies throughout the seder, if I'm not mistaken. Having the meal on the table might make your father feel more patient. Plus, there are plenty of other Yom Tov meals-divrei Torah would be good at any of them! Hatzlacha!

sweetpotato

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 3:17 pm

This is an issue for us too. I think it requires compromise and sensitivity on both sides. You don't want to be made to feel like you have to rush through the seder, and you don't want to squash your children's enthusiasm, which is beautiful. On the other hand, it's important to remember when you have a "captive audience" that you need to be respectful of their time and hunger. Also, with non-frum relatives, they may already be approaching the seder with the idea that it's long, boring and not fun, and you don't want to reinforce those ideas. Maybe set a time limit-- if the seder starts around 8, you want to be at motzei by 9:15, and make sure your parents agree to that and are willing to wait without making unkind or impatient remarks.

The other thing, which we've done in years past, is just let people run the seder at their own paces. I do this with bentching-- my in-laws tend to rush through the meal (even though they've been waiting so desperately for it) and go straight to bentching before my husband and kids and I are ready. So we let them bentch and go on their merry way, and finish at our leisure. Some people really don't like feeling like they are "captive" to the seder, as illogical as it seems, so I don't fight it.

Finally, my in-laws started having a large snack before the seder (their choice), and it makes them less impatient and cranky.

tichellady

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 3:24 pm

We have family for one Seder that is shorter and our other Seder is longer.

Two things that we found helped:
1. Serving appetizers with Maggid. My rabbi said it was fine and it keeps everyone less cranky
2. Giving family assignments a week before pesach to prepare something to share/discuss during Maggid so they are invested

mha3484

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 3:26 pm

I'm impressed that your families all want to come. My parents know exactly how long our sedarim are compared to theirs and have zero interest in coming. My mother goes to her mother where the whole thing is no longer then an hour and my father goes to a friend.

amother

Mustard

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 5:11 pm

My parents always kvetch about the length of our seder (and all during it!), so mostly they would go to my siblings, but now that's not practical.

However, I have digestive issues and realized a couple of years ago that racing through the shiurim at 12:30 a.m. is really hard on me, so I decided to take my own matzos and proceeded through the hagadah myself, eating my matzah about 10 pm. I then take a bowl of soup if I'm in the mood and sit around listening, or go ahead and finish the rest of the hagadah, as the fancy takes me.

So I told my parents they are most welcome to do the same, go ahead at their own pace and finish whenever they want. Lemaaseh they don't bother, they just take naps throughout. Whatever works...

amother

Brunette

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 5:14 pm

Thanks for your replies

So if say it only takes an hour. What do u say when every 10 minutes or as soon as there is any conversation away from the text, he says "hurry up". What exactly should we do or say?

ETA we are vin the southern hemisphere . We start at about 6.30, and are eating by 8.

WaterWoman

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 5:29 pm

amother wrote:

Would it help if you sat him down and explained to him how you want to try things out for this year? If he's prepared and knows what to expect?

tichellady

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 5:36 pm

amother wrote:

I would tell your family when you invite them, that the Seder starts at 6:30 and that the discussion will start then and continue until 8 when dinner will be served. Remind them to eat before they come if you will be hungry waiting until 8. I would say something like this " I know that waiting for an hour may seem like a lot. We appreciate your patience. The children prepare for this night for weeks in school and we are trying to balance their excitement with the needs of our guest. Thanks for understanding and not rushing the conversation!" We will make sure we eat by 8 in order to respect your preference.

Mon, Apr 11 2016, 11:56 pm

I find that sometimes a Seder can drag unnecessarily. Plan in advance with your husband not to shmooze too much in between sections, have the kids ready with one or two divrei Torah at set times (they can save their other deep thoughts for the remaining Yom Tov meals), make sure the ritual items and table settings are prepped and ready to go, etc. It adds up.

Also helpful is to have matching hagaddahs for all with both English and Hebrew, so people are less likely to lose their places and all will feel part of the same process.

amother

Brunette

Tue, Apr 12 2016, 12:11 am

So I think there are a lot of good ideas here. how long is normal from kddush to motzie matza? Like I said, the MAX we take is one and a half hours.

What do you say when kids (upper elementary aged) are engaged in animated discussion about yetziat mitzrayim, and their grandfather says. "hurry up, come on, get on with it"? Like you put all the other strategies in place. What do you say at that awkward moment?

amother

Ginger

Tue, Apr 12 2016, 12:43 am

amother wrote:

Dad, we're running on schedule and set to have dinner at 8:00. Let's enjoy what David prepared for us. There's no need to rush.

amother

Brunette

Tue, Apr 12 2016, 1:10 am

amother wrote:

Dad, we're running on schedule and set to have dinner at 8:00. Let's enjoy what David prepared for us. There's no need to rush.

Even reading that suggestion makes me nervous. Do people really speak that way to their father? I mean , my kids certainly do . And far worse. But I'm afraid to say that.

DrMom

Tue, Apr 12 2016, 1:29 am

amother wrote:

Even reading that suggestion makes me nervous. Do people really speak that way to their father? I mean , my kids certainly do . And far worse. But I'm afraid to say that.

I don't think it is impolite; it is assertive.

I think you need to say something like that. The behavior you describe by your father is very rude.

This is a polite but firm way of conveyong the message, "Yes, we know you are in a hurry, but there is a program here and this is my house and my lifestyle and we are making accommodations for you but you need to be flexible here too. This is a seder, not a Happy Meal at a McDonald's drive-through."

As others have suggested, you can reduce the probability of having a this conversation at the seder table by setting expectations ahead of time (posting a schedule, etc.).

amother

Brunette

Tue, Apr 12 2016, 7:24 am

DrMom wrote:

I don't think it is impolite; it is assertive.

I think you need to say something like that.).

The trouble is HE would consider it impolite. There might be a "scene". But at the same time I do not want to squash my kids' enthusiasm. This is very very important.

He would say "I don't want to be told what to do, thanks very much". Or something like that. What are my halachic requirements here (according to R. Immamother who of course cannot actually pasken!)?

DrMom

Tue, Apr 12 2016, 7:57 am

amother wrote:

His behavior is out of line. If he just wants to eat without any sort of seder, why come for seder night? You need to politely hold your ground. You are not asking anything unreasonable.

If there is some medical reason why he must eat every few minutes, you can available have small appetizers, as someone above suggested. You don't have to ruin your kids' pesach to cater to his impatience.

Does your mother come too? Could she talk to him ahead of time?

Just because he is your father, he does not get to bully everyone into submission. You area grown woman running your own household. You should make it clear that the seder takes some time, and although you'd like to make it as comfortable as possible for him, if he cannot endure waiting, he should not come.