Teenagers - let them be kids or prepare them for life?

amother

Plum

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 8:18 pm

amother wrote:

So you cleaned, did laundry, took care of your siblings, etc all at the ripe old age of 13. By 18 you already had a job and ran a household before you even dated, got married, and/or had your own kids. That's more like a 30 year old than a 13-18 year old. So at what age were you allowed to be a teenager? When did you get to hang out with friends, develop any talents you may have had (art, music, dance, etc) and/or be a carefree teen without having the burden of taking care of a household? What kind of job did have while you were in school and how did you manage homework, work and taking care of the household while also still being a teenager who did not have any of the responsibilities that an adult would have?

I had a retail job, I am good at managing my time, and I did NOT run the household although I had a lot of responsibility. I said I could run the household when my mother had a baby. I did not run it on a regular basis.

And I found time for hobbies, too.

This has all been good training for my adult life. I have children, a household, I help my DH in his business, etc, and I feel like I use a lot of the skills I learned as a child. And I still have time for ImaMother.

I think the point of my education was to prepare me for adult life and the housework I did was more important for my adult life than a lot of other things I did.

amother

Plum

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 8:27 pm

And what if your worst fear is true? What if my parents really would have stopped having kids at, say, 4 or 6 kids, instead of having a very large family if they hadn't had help from their older children?

Do you think I would be better off if I had fewer siblings and had spent more time dancing and investing in friendships? Would that be worth even one of my siblings? I have amazing relationships with my siblings and they are each wonderful in their own way. I wouldn't give up any of them.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 8:51 pm

amother wrote:

So you went to school all day, went to work afterwards, then came home to take care of your siblings, clean, do laundry, etc and still had time to do your homework, chill with friends, have hobbies (what kind of hobbies did you have?) and just relax with a glass of wine, I mean grape juice without feeling worn down and used. You sure were a superteen!!
But what happened if you didn't want to take care of your siblings or wash laundry or clean up? Were there any consequences for that or were your parents okay with you taking a break from these responsibilities?

amother

cornflower

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 8:59 pm

amother wrote:

..
I think the point of my education was to prepare me for adult life and the housework I did was more important for my adult life than a lot of other things I did.

I'm happy for both you and me. I'm happy that you are content with that 'education'. I'm happy that I learned a lot more important things growing up than how to clean and keep a house.

Maya

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 9:03 pm

amother wrote:

I'm happy for both you and me. I'm happy that you are content with that 'education'. I'm happy that I learned a lot more important things growing up than how to clean and keep a house.

This is rude and condescending. You make it sound like the poster was a slave to her parents and all she did was cook and clean throughout her entire childhood. I'm sure she has learned all those important things that you did, too.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 9:15 pm

Maya wrote:

Remember the video of a child being held inappropriately by the principal of his school that was out a few weeks ago and how some people claimed that the child was not abused? Would you have said it is not abuse if the child isn't aware or didn't feel that he is being abused?
Its the same in this case, a teenager was forced to act like an adult and had responsibilities that were not age appropriate, do you think that it is okay simply because amother plum doesn't feel angry or resentful about it? How do you know that the cycle of abuse is not being repeated and amothers plums kids are not being parentified as well? How do you stop this abuse from happening if it is the norm in some families?

Maya

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 9:20 pm

amother wrote:

Remember the video of a child being held inappropriately by the principal of his school that was out a few weeks ago and people claimed that the child was not abused? Would you have said it is not abuse if the child isn't aware that he is being abused?
Its the same in this case, a teenager was forced to act like an adult and had responsibilities that were not age appropriate, do you think that it is okay simply because amother plum doesn't feel angry or resentful about it? How do you know that the cycle of abuse is not being repeated and amothers plums kids are not being parentified as well? How do you stop this abuse from happening if it is the norm in some families?

I would not think it's appropriate to compare this to s-xual abuse. I also don't think it's appropriate to even call this scenario abuse.

You're entitled to feel however you want, I just think it's wrong to pester this amother into thinking she was abused.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 9:36 pm

Maya wrote:

Abuse is abuse regardless if it is physical or emotional/psychological and all of it need to be stopped.

But its possible that amother plum was not abused, she may have enjoyed having all these age inappropriate responsibilities that only an adult would have. But what happened if she didn't want to do them, where there any consequences for not taking care of her siblings or not doing the laundry etc?

Maya

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 9:49 pm

amother wrote:

Obviously I can't answer for that amother.

Personally, I cooked dinner every night from the age of 14 because I "traded" that for other household chores which I hated to do. But it was the natural order of the home that everyone contributed to its upkeep. You can call that age inappropriate if you'd like, but I wouldn't call it abuse.

Do you think children should not get consequences if they refuse to do their chores?

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 10:50 pm

Maya wrote:

There is nothing wrong with having chores but what amother plum is saying has nothing to do with having age appropriate chores or consequences for not completing them. So you had to cook dinner every night which you chose to do and enjoyed doing but amother plum had inappropriate responsibilities like taking care of her siblings, cleaning, doing laundry, etc. that she should not have had at such a young age (and I am still waiting to hear what the consequences were for refusing to do them and/or if she was also allowed to trade her "chores" like you did etc). There is age appropriate chores that teenagers should be doing but they shouldn't be responsible for taking care of their siblings, doing laundry, cleaning, etc on a regular/steady basis because that is called parentification and is abuse. What about that isn't clear?

tigerwife

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 11:21 pm

Quote:

but amother plum had inappropriate responsibilities like taking care of her siblings, clean, do laundry, etc.

This is opinion and not fact at all. Personally, I find it stranger for a 14-year-old to be responsible for the family dinners than babysitting or doing laundry, but Maya doesn't seem to traumatized by it so who cares? Plum seemed quite satisfied with her teenage workload, so why make her believe it was abuse? I can project and say I would never have managed to do everything she did and would have been quite resentful about it, but that's my projection and not Plum's experience.

As for OP, although I grew up in a large family, we had daily cleaning help and a SAHM. My culinary skills included pasta and fried eggs, and I had one embarrassing moment when DH had to teach me how to do laundry the first time we ran out of clean clothes as a couple. Guess what? After the first few weeks, I ran my household and cooked like anyone else. I googled recipes and home tips and got advice from family and friends and it worked. I can't say I'm the neatest but I don't think that has anything to do with experience. It sounds like you have a good relationship with your daughter. It would be different if she felt entitled and refused to do anything even if you asked. She's simply inexperienced. Some of her peers started younger so they seem more capable; when she starts being responsible for her own home she can prove herself to be just as capable as anyone else.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 11:32 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Quote:

but amother plum had inappropriate responsibilities like taking care of her siblings, clean, do laundry, etc.

Parentification is fact, not opinion. Just because someone is conditioned to believe that this was "best for them" doesn't mean that that they weren't abused.

Many kids cook for their families. Watch shows like Masterchef Junior or Chopped Junior and you will find young children who are expert cooks and cook for their families on a daily basis. If that is their only chore other than perhaps keeping their own room clean, then it is no big deal. But if a teenager has to take care of their siblings AND clean AND do laundry AND go shopping AND cook twice a week etc, then you have a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Where are the parents and why aren't they taking care of their own kids? Why are the parents asking their child to take on so many chores? And does the child have a right to say no without being punished for it? This could also be classified as enmeshment and/or codependency which is demonstrative of unhealthy familial boundaries that should be addressed as well.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/a.....rent/

http://theviewspaper.net/when-.....rent/

tigerwife

Thu, Jun 23 2016, 11:56 pm

I don't doubt you are stating facts about parentification. But you can't possibly diagnose parentification based on one post in a forum. I would only be curious if the others in the family helped as much, and if the parents really ran the household (which includes some normal delegation, not to be confused with depending entirely on your kids).

amother

Plum

Fri, Jun 24 2016, 12:04 am

amother wrote:

I never saw a problem with doing chores in general even if I didn't like a specific job. I knew I was needed and I saw these things as just a part of life and being independent . I'm sure if I didn't do them my parents would have been disappointed . Beyond that I don't know. Mostly, my siblings and I were happy to be contributing members of the family.

I liked to play classical piano. I also was into needlecrafts for a few years. I liked to do fine embroidery. And I read a lot.

Are you a psychologist? Because I don't see how you are in a position to sit there and diagnose abuse over the Internet in a family you have never met.

Chana Miriam S

Fri, Jun 24 2016, 12:09 am

I have a boy and a girl. The boy is fully capable of cooking, cleaning and laundry. He is twenty. He will make some lucky girl a good husband.

My daughter at almost 17 is a very good student who works very hard for school. She does laundry for herself and helps when we ask. I'm not so worried she won't know what to do because I suspect she will be financially successful and will be able to afford help. She gets grades in the high nineties and wants to be an actuary. 100k starting salary after you pass your exams.

amother

Gray

Fri, Jun 24 2016, 2:30 am

I'm the oldest of 4 and the only girl. We were all expected to help out, but we weren't burdened with chores. We were responsible to keep our own rooms neat and to help set the table before a meal and clear up afterwards.

We only had specific chores on erev shabbos or Y"T to help get the house ready. We started off with a rotation, but then settled into doing the chores we each preferred. I think this included tearing toilet paper, emptying the dishwashers, setting the table, vacuuming, polishing the silver, and mopping the kitchen floor.

My parents were adamant that my brothers helped as much as I did. My father is hopeless in the kitchen and not around much during the week, but he gives my mother a break every shabbos by washing the dishes and he washes the household towels and linens every Sunday morning (and makes up the beds too!).

My children are still young, but I'm trying to follow in my parents' footsteps. They set a good example of collaboration. I keep telling my children that in our house we all help each other and that includes children helping in whatever small ways they are capable.

Just out of curiosity, for those who wrote that their children are responsible for doing their own laundry once they hit a certain age, how is that efficient? Isn't it better to do bigger loads of appropriately sorted laundry than a bunch of smaller loads? And what happens when more than one person needs to do laundry on the same night?

imaima

Fri, Jun 24 2016, 4:49 am

I believe a single factor here is parents attitude and reaction when a child fails to do a job.
I didn't have siblings and didn't have a lot of chores but I resented the ones I did. Why?
Because I was yelled at to do them, yelled at while I made mistakes doing them and yelled at for failing to do them. There was a lot of negativiy involved. That being said, my mother never actually took her time to sit down and calmly explain how to do things step by step. I was supposed understand everything from watching and magically know how to do things right.

saw50st8

Fri, Jun 24 2016, 7:27 am

Growing up, my mother was a really busy single parent. She was too busy to let us pitch in with chores and show us how to do it. I definitely struggle with household management, but a lot of that has to do with who I am (definitely scatterbrained!).

My kids have chores. Nothing consistent because of our schedule, but they help out. They get points for chores and can often choose what they want to help with. Some of my kids (with the same burden of chores as the others) feel more resentful than others. They do NOT have a large load of chores at all. They probably do 3-4 chores a week at most.

It's important to me that they have basic life skills and contribute to the family in a meaningful way.

I think it's awful when parents hold their kids back to help rather than letting them have a life. I tried inviting a cousin of DH's for shabbos once and her mother said "No, she's only allowed to go away once a year to her grandmother because I need her help" (she's the oldest of 12, 10 boys after her followed by a girl). Her brothers were too "holy" to help out.

I think it's also different if there is a crisis in the family and kids need to really pitch in short term. But long term, kids should be kids.