R' Jonathan Rietti says some "Mekubalim" are Charlatans

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 12:34 pm

charlatans: def.

A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practising quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception.

Did anyone hear his talk about imitation Kabbalists that played on J Route yesterday?

He said one way to know if someone is a genuine Mekubal, is if many Gdolim associate themselves with this specific Mekubal.

Opinions?

amother

Yellow

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 12:39 pm

I'm very interested in this discussion. I don't have an answer to your question. However, I recently visited a mekubal whom I respect, and who has had answers for me in the past. This time though he recommended a service for a large sum of money which I can't afford right now......and I'm at a loss as to what to do.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 12:43 pm

ITA. And not just mekubalim - also with the "Ayin Hara ladies". I think that SOME are legit, but they are few and far between and dont charge an arm and a leg for a meeting.

I am anon because of the following story that I've told many times.

I manage a mikvah and I am also the head mikvah lady. One "ayin hara lady" started coming around to dip after she did her lead ball ayin hara removal for people. She wanted to dip at any time of the day, with no care for my personal schedule - she never called first to see if I was there (I live there) and would POUND on the door until I opened it. Or she would come at night. She said that her dips were emergencys because once she removes the ayin hara from someone, it goes into her. She wouldn't take no for an answer, and demanded that I take her into the water, day or night - and REFUSED TO PAY! She insisted that because she is also in the business of purifying people, she should be able to come for free. Middle of the day, I have to clean up after her. Especially then she should have paid. I stopped allowing her to use the mikvah after this happened 3 or 4 times. The Rabbi of the Mikvah, once I told him about this, was livid that I allowed her to pull this shtick even once.

I know that everyone is entitled to their parnassa. But come on. And this woman, stealing my time and mikvah supplies, there is NO WAY that she is legit. And for these mekubalim - a sure sign that they are fakers is when they demand tons of cash for meeting with you.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 12:50 pm

Theres someone who lives in Brooklyn who has lots of followers who come to him for advice. How would anyone know if Gdolim associate with this Mekubal? Rabbi Rietti said he knows of one charlatan posing as a Mekubal, who used to be a salesman. This Mekubal used to be a salesman.

amother

Wine

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 12:52 pm

All I know is that I have been saying the same thing...
My mother was sick with non hotchkins limphoma in the hospital when she took a turn for the worst.
Her sister - my aunt brought in a 'mikubal' to give her a 'beracha'. She didn't ask my father or us children for pemision first either. The 'mikubal' comes in to the room and asked us all to leave the room . my mother still had enough of her sences to get historical about this. No one knew this very young 'mikubal'. My aunt saw a sign on the door of the room he was staying in saying that her was a 'mikubal' and asked him to come.
Anyway we didn't fully go out of the room .we stayed to the side. The 'mikubal' gaVe my mother some wrapped object to put in to her tichel and told her that there will be three hard days and then she will hav e peace . Well his words came true. After three hard days she passed away....
I always said it was because of this 'mikubal' that the passed on.....

amother

Purple

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

The 'mikubal' gaVe my mother some wrapped object to put in to her tichel and told her that there will be three hard days and then she will hav e peace . Well his words came true. After three hard days she passed away....
I always said it was because of this 'mikubal' that the passed on.....

Is this assisted suicide?

pointyshoes

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 2:00 pm

You can usually tell who's fake by how controlling/charming/cult-like they are.
If they make unrealistic demands that are obviously to their personal benefit then that's a warning sign.
Its always a good idea to go in with your eyes wide open. But then again, I'm very sceptical of anything mystical.
IMO if you can go to gedolim for advice and brachas- why go to these people at all?
Unless I guess your trusted rav or rebbe advises it.

amother

Oak

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 2:12 pm

Beware of anyone who insists on alot of your money for anything.

Years ago we were suffering with IF, and a well-known Rosh Yeshiva was visiting our town. He was extremely elderly and unwell, but there were signs up about his coming and getting brachos...so DH and I went. We came into the room and he was asleep. His son got all excited when he heard about our IF, like he hit the jackpot, and told us that if we give a very large sum to the Yeshiva he can guarantee us a baby within a year. He was like trying to shake the poor old Rav awake. We told him we'd think about it. He got very pushy and persuasive and upset at us that we wouldn't commit on the spot. It was sickening, like they shlepped an ill person as a front to get money.

We asked our Rav about it, and he told us that the only known segulahs are Teshuva, Tefillah, and Tzedaka. And we can do these according to OUR abilities, don't promise your entire bank account away.

B"H we had a baby some time later, without shelling out money we didn't have or starving ourselves.

pointyshoes

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 2:15 pm

amother wrote:

What a sick person that son is Puke

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:32 pm

Whats considered a lot of money?

Years ago I went to a highly regarded Mekubal who had a Yeshiva in Israel. In the beginning he didnt specify an amount he wanted as a donation, but when he got older the organization asked for a few hundred dollars for his Yeshiva in order to get an appointment. This one lived in Israel.

Btw, are there any real/genuine/Torahdik Mekubalim living in Brooklyn?

amother

Bisque

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:43 pm

Rav Yaakov Hillel, a reputable rabbi well versed in kabbalah, wrote an entire book for the public to gain awareness of mekubalim who are charlatans or using koach hatumah.

I forgot the name of the book, but I read it a while ago and it explained what the limitations of kabbalah are today as well as equipping the reader with warning signs to look out for....

amother

Oak

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:51 pm

amother wrote:

They wanted money in the thousands. Like at least close to 10K.

amother

Red

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:14 pm

ra_mom wrote:

The Skolya Rebbe has been saying for years that most mekubalim need a refuah shelaima and that one should not put a person between themselves and Hashem.

I'm inclined to agree. My FIL is mentally ill but he has an uncanny ability to "read" people and spooks them with his "psychic abilities". Oh and he gives "brachos" that have probably worked less than 10 percent of the time but the ones that "worked" became family legend.

I can see many kabalists doing similar things.