are kids different now?

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 7:12 am

Everyone I know (incl me) has kids with 'issues'- adhd, autism, sensory, defiance whatever. When I was a kid, there was a lot less of all that. And a lot more spankings, and a lot more respect. I'm wondering if in fact the old way was better. Sure it hurt, and you felt bad. But maybe it was better.

Alternatively, maybe it's more luke our parents hit us a lot, which made us weak people, which makes us weak parents, and makes it that our kids walk all over us just like our parents did.

Which one is it?

Ema of 5

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 7:16 am

amother wrote:

My parents never hit me. I have one kid with ADHD, ODD, and social and behavioral difficulties, and 3 kids with varying sensory issues.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 7:56 am

My father has Adhd and dyslexia. Needless to say, in the 1960s neither of those terms existed. He was belted by his father (who he stopped speaking to at the age of 16) and paddled at school and also repeatedly called stupid because of his reading difficulties. He struggled, but persevered and is now a doctor. He also broke the cycle of abuse and never ever hit any of his children. He wishes these labels existed when he was kid, could avoided a lot of physical and emotional pain, and believes he could have grown up to be even more successful (not that he doesn't see himself as successful, but more like "imagine how much more I could have done had I not been held back"). Lest you think he's better for having struggled, his life is far from perfect. He's divorced from my mother and has had a string of highly dysfunctional relationships over the years.
My stepfather has Aspergers. Again, not something that "existed" in the '60s, and while he was not beaten, he was also called stupid, freak, queer. His parents were very wealthy and worried that he'd never manage to hold down a job, so they set up a big trust for him and also gave him a job in the family business but didn't expect him to be any good at it. Well after his father died, he built the company up even bigger and sold it for $100 million and retired at age 45. He's also pretty dysfunctional - a nice guy, but he married my mom when he was 43 (had never been married before) and my mom is sometimes embarrassed to go places with him. He made an extremely embarrassing speech at my Sheva brachos (still not sure how my mom allowed that). Perhaps had his issues been addressed in childhood, he would be able to interact normally with people.
My oldest child has both Aspergers and adhd. We knew something was up when he was 2 and started with early intervention. At 5, you cam barely tell there's anything wrong. He can be a little challenging, but we manage him just fine, no need for hitting or berating. Because we have been getting him help from such an early age, he's going to have iyh a normal adulthood and won't have to suffer like his grandfathers did.

amother

Chocolate

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 8:08 am

I know people who do not hit and do not have kids with issues, and I know adults who were beaten as children and had issues like ADD and ADHD. I do believe in spankings and NOT beatings; however, I do not believe that spankings would "cure" ADD or ODD or anything else. I was belted regularly as a kid, whipped with a cane, had my face smashed in, and much more. I don't have ADD and that's not because of the beatings I endured, but I do suffer from terrible anxiety and mild depression. I think that anxiety was apart of my inborn nature but that with proper parenting would have been more bearable, and I don't think that I would have felt like a failure when I'm not had I not experienced almost daily beatings. I've had therapy and it BH helps, but yes I struggle. I'm in awe of the man who amother mentioned became a doctor despite all of his issues and upbringing, and I hope that IYH I can find that kind of self determination too.

miami85

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 8:48 am

My mother didn't give me a potch regularly--but the threat of it was enough for me. Thus, I hear it creeping into my vocabulary, I hate to use it, but sometimes a quick little reminder reinforces behavior for my child who often acts before thinking and does not pay heed to what I'm telling him--and one does seem to have a lasting effect for a while.

There is more awareness of disorders and also that not everyone is meant to be academic. Once upon a time kids didn't go to school until 18, many dropped out and pursued vocational careers or apprenticeships. Also there's more evidence that just because you didn't get A's in school you can't succeed, it just might take you longer, I know someone that wasn't the "best" student in high school, but she just got her Master's degree at 30.

Many kids--in public school-- today think high school is for goofing off and having a good time (and they don't realize that "free" public school is only free because of tax dollars) and that they'll make it playing sports or acting or going on "America's got Talent" etc. They don't appreciate the hard work, focus and concentration that go into learning. Like if I can't do it in 5 minutes--it's too hard.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 9:06 am

amother wrote:

Those who were physically assaulted as a child as a matter of discipline will have a lot of trouble parenting a challenging child because of the lack of role model for effective parenting. We all refer back to how we were parented to do what "feels right". When we were parented in the wrong way, there is a real deficit and void in having role models and a reference point for parenting. In terms of your question, leaving the abuse behind is not a matter of making the child "weaker" and therefore having "weaker" children. When the child grows up, if she chooses to leave the abusive tactics behind, she will need to work really hard to develop effective and loving parenting techniques to be a good parent, especially if the child has additional challenges. Therapy, parenting classes, and parenting literature will have an important role in her Parenting. She can learn to be a warm, strong, lovi g and effective parent, but it does take a lot of effort and honesty. This is the third choice, and the best. Break the cycle of abuse and become a strong, loving, effective parent through hard work.

miami85

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 9:36 am

amother wrote:

Just for the record, clarifying my statement above. My mother used "potching" as a last resort and I do too. I do feel that there is a lack of "hierarchy" of punishment. Her go-to "punishment" was always "let's have a discussion"--which if I heard that, I always knew I was in trouble. A talk about the misdeed should ALWAYS accompany any punishment. A child should not live in fear of retribution--which I see a lot and that's not healthy. Abuse is not understanding when or why a potch is coming along with frequency.
If the rational approaches are not working and a child is acting defiantly and irrationally in a way that is putting others in danger or acting destructively and unless there is really no time due to the danger of the situation (I.e. running into the street, hurting another child/parent) then I ALWAYS give a warning: "Your choices are do what I ask, go to bathroom/bed (and in certain circumstances, say "I'm hungry"), or get a potch"

Chayalle

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 10:38 am

Like everything in life, labeling can be overdone. However, the benefits of these labels, and addressing the issues in our children, are something I look at as positive, even if the fallout is that sometimes it's overdone.

Take the fact that my DD really struggled with writing. An evaluation found that she needed help with fine motor skills, and 6 months of OT helped her make tremendous progress. During this process, we also found that her focus improved tremendously.

In my extended family, there are several people known for their illegible hand-writings. Some of them are also rather scatterbrained. Why should she struggle with this all her life (and it's not just writing - it's all areas involving fine motor skills that are affected by this.) This is just a small example where diagnosing and addressing the issue positively impacts someone for life. Isn't that the point of chinuch - helping our children prepare for the tasks they will need to do in the future?

amother

Indigo

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 11:00 am

HonesttoGod wrote:

They used to just live and let live a whole lot more.
These days everyone has labels. Everyone is something. People who DON'T see a therapist, kids who DON'T have therapies and SEITs etc are the strange ones.

It is more in America than anywhere else.

No they didn't live and let live. They either beat them into submission or shipped them off to an institution and pretended they didn't exist.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 11:15 am

amother wrote:

No they didn't live and let live. They either beat them into submission or shipped them off to an institution and pretended they didn't exist.

This.

Fifty years ago, my super verbal, above grade level son would have been shipped off to a mental institution and never heard from again. Poor kid only needed a few years of speech therapy (he still wasn't talking in complete sentences at 5) and ABA.

I shudder at the thought of how many lives previous generations lost to mass institutionalizations and beating kids "for their own good."

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Jul 12 2016, 11:32 am

miami85 wrote:

...
Many kids--in public school-- today think high school is for goofing off and having a good time (and they don't realize that "free" public school is only free because of tax dollars) and that they'll make it playing sports or acting or going on "America's got Talent" etc. They don't appreciate the hard work, focus and concentration that go into learning. Like if I can't do it in 5 minutes--it's too hard.

Are you a public school teacher?