Charactor school bags.

chen

Wed, Aug 22 2007, 1:31 pm

One is not supposed to mention an avodoh zoroh by name, which is why I guess people are scrupulous not to say that man's given name, even without the added term meaning "savior". That being the case, you should technically not be able to refer to by name most of the planets or days of the week in English, though I don't know anyone who says " the planet nearest the Earth" instead of "Mars".

Actually, Lubavitch publications do not use the term "saint" "sainte" or "santo/a" in place names. They'll say S. Monica or S. Louis.

Lehavdil, I knew a guy who would never pronounce the final syllable of a name that ended in -el or -ia or-yahu. If your name was Chaia, you were Chai, if your name was Yeshaya you were Shai, and I don't know what he did for Yisroel. Yisro? Scratching Head

. And yes, he did drink ginger kale and he wasn't joking.

shalhevet

Wed, Aug 22 2007, 2:03 pm

chen wrote:

. And yes, he did drink ginger kale and he wasn't joking.

My father has a story like that. As a young man he went on holiday to a kosher guest house in the English seaside town of St. Annes. The guest house sent him the address but everyone he asked directions from in the street had never heard of it.

Turns out that all the streets in St. Annes are (were?) named after saints, and the frum family that ran the guest house gave the street name out without the St. prefix - which was why no-one had heard of that street. Very Happy

mummiedearest

Wed, Aug 22 2007, 3:24 pm

Quote:

One is not supposed to mention an avodoh zoroh by name, which is why I guess people are scrupulous not to say that man's given name, even without the added term meaning "savior".

so if J esus is derived from yeshu, a substitute for his actual name, why filter that out and not, say, the halachically problematic title? unless you go by the dictionary that says it's from yehoshua, in which case no one would name their kid that...

chen

Wed, Aug 22 2007, 5:30 pm

Ruchel wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

I believe satmar is derived from st mary.

yup

I read that, too, but it's a myth. The name of the town is Satu Mare, which in Romanian means something like "Great big". "Saint" in Romanian is something like "sfant".

Mrs.Norris

Thu, Aug 23 2007, 12:36 am

zeldy wrote:

There are Hispanic people with that name, they pronounce it Hay-sus. So, what would we call them- hoshkey?

haha! I was also thinking that!
I don't get why it is censored, doesn't fear of a name increase fear of the thing itself? For example we wont say the name of G-d because we fear G-d and respect Him and like in Harry Potter (sorry for the comparison) they wont say Voldemort because they're all terrified of him, I don't see why we can't say the name J.esus in a conversation like this, it's not as if we're saying it to be controversial, we are all mature adults on here are we not?

mimivan

Thu, Aug 23 2007, 1:02 am

chen wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

I believe satmar is derived from st mary.

yup

I read that, too, but it's a myth. The name of the town is Satu Mare, which in Romanian means something like "Great big". "Saint" in Romanian is something like "sfant".

But I thought the Satmars were from Hungary?

hadasa

Thu, Aug 23 2007, 1:29 am

I think Satu Mare has something to do with "sea".
Chen - there's no problem with pronouncing names of AZ that are no longer worshipped.

There's a town in Ukraine called Beliy Tzerkov, meaning "White Church". The Chassidim used to call it either "Sadeh Lavan" or "black Tumah". There are old Sefarim that say "printed in Sadeh lavan".

mimivan

Thu, Aug 23 2007, 3:12 am

hadasa wrote:

But we never know if these AZ s are being worshipped...like I saw an article recently that said people are reviving worship of Roman and Greek gods...If I didn't see that article, I might have thought saying M*Rs or ZE@s was okay.

mummiedearest

Thu, Aug 23 2007, 10:32 am

well, then, we can't use the english names of months either...

january- janus, god of the doorway, roman
march- mars, god of war, roman
may- maia, goddess of fertility, roman
june- juno, roman goddess, wife of jupiter

february is named after a roman purification ritual, july and august after the two caesers, september and onward after the original number month. april is not certain.

what to say for four months of the year?

shalhevet

Thu, Aug 23 2007, 10:42 am

mummiedearest wrote:

Why only English months?

What about Sivan, Tammuz and Elul? (Names of Babylonian gods I think) Tammuz is already mentioned in Navi as the name of an idol/god.

chen

Thu, Aug 23 2007, 11:02 am

For that matter, I have always wondered why some jewish calendars mention the mazolos (zodiacal signs) that pertain to each month, considering that "ein mazal leYisroel" and we're not supposed to believe in them. There's even a shul somewhere with the zodiac embedded in the floor.

mummiedearest

Thu, Aug 23 2007, 11:41 am

chen-

ein mazal b'yisrael refers to foretelling events. there is definitely a concept of mazal in judaism. for example, eisav and david were born under the same mazal. they had certain similarities- red hair, the propensity to draw blood. the proof of free choice is that eisav chose to use this propensity to murder. david used it in war. this is often given as an example of bechira along with some other choices- one can use this trait to become a doctor or a mohel.

the same idea holds with wishing people mazal tov and such similarities. if the chosson forgets to bring the ring to the chupah, thereby delaying the marriage, it is often said that the mazal wasn't right at that exact second, and forgetting the ring was a way of ensuring the proper time for the marriage. a big difference between the jewish and secular/other religious views on mazal is that they believe in monthly changes in the stars, we believe they change by the second. it is therefore very hard to understand mazalos, and most people don't think about them.

I hope this clarifies things? I think the zodiac does have some significance, but again, no one really understands it.