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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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amother

Wed, Sep 19 2007, 11:16 pm

Being BT I haven't grown up and seen how a jewish home is run. For instance, teaching the kids to wash their hands in the morning is but one example. I have been shomer shabbat, kept kosher but I haven't internally grown to know what my role is. I know that the mother's role is so important in how the family runs. What should I be teaching my kids? Also, what should I know for myself? Are there any good books out there that explains these things? I feel that something is missing from my home.

Hope this makes sense and thanks in advance for your responses.

Amother- as I am embarrassed for all that I do not know.

Mimisinger

Wed, Sep 19 2007, 11:42 pm

Please do not be embarrassed. Bt or not, we are all women who are trying to do best by our families. What ages are your children, maybe the women on this board can help you figure out some ages to start chinuch.

There is a book called Children in Halacha that talks about the age of chinuch of when to start some things, I totally recommend that book.

Chocoholic

Thu, Sep 20 2007, 9:21 am

Do you live in a large community?
If so, you maybe could ask a nice neighbor for advice..
If you don´t live in a large community talk to your rebbetzin. She will for sure understand and more than willing to give you advice.

Do NOT be ashamed. On the contrary I find it very brave to come out for it... we are all women jut trying to do the best we can, and it is not more than normal that you might find it hard because you didn´t grow up with it and the jewish law is quite complex..... let alone bringing it over to our children.!!!!!!

Here is the link of a book that could help you..
http://www.artscroll.com/Products/CHHH.html

However, DO talk to your rebbetzin/rav as local customs might be slightly different from what the book presents...

hatzloche

southernbubby

Thu, Sep 20 2007, 12:09 pm

There is a website that has been quoted on this site that has the information. It was started in memory of Nechama Greisman by her husband and it gives a lot of haskofas about running a frum home. If you google search Nechama Greisman or do a search on Imamother, there are references to the site. There are also several books that are compilations of her talks that she gave to women to help them.

amother

Thu, Sep 20 2007, 8:53 pm

Thank you so much for your replies. They were very kind and warming and they make me feel like I can change and improve my home. I don't feel as embarrassed(yet I will remain amother).

I will buy the book Children in Halacha. It seems like it will definitely help. I read a bit about Nechoma Greisman and I will read some more. I definitely think I could learn from her teachings. She seems like she was a remarkable woman.

My children are 8,4,2, and 1. I do live in a pretty big community but I don't know many people closely. So, sometimes I feel I'm on my own(with my husband of course) to figure it all out. But, I believe it is the right direction if I keep learning more and more.

Thank you!

Mimisinger

Thu, Sep 20 2007, 9:02 pm

The Children in Halacha book is really good - a friend and I even have a weekly chavrusa learning the book b/c we each have a one young child - mine a toddler and her an infant, so we, an ffb and bt both need to know what is going on and what to do so we are learning it. You are not alone. Try asking more specific questions and maybe people can answer them.

songbliss

Thu, Sep 20 2007, 9:26 pm

I think I can help, being that I'm the daughter of a bt and I know what could've helped make things easier for me if my mom had done them... (many things she also did naturally which I know alot of FRUM women dont take the time to do... so dont worry, you wont necessarily miss out being a bt but actually will probably do better than alot of us b/c you are concerned about it!)

so to be very practical think of it in this way

-what do you want to become natural to your child?
this could range from: saying modeh ani in the morning and washing you're childs hands... to davening with them the basic davening.

-the earlier you start the more natural it will be to the child.

-it will also be a great uplifting of you're own spirituality to daven with ur baby in the morning. I try, but its not always easy!

-try to remember when the childs old enough to eat to make a bracha with him. it'll make a big difference.

-remember that even as a newborn whatever you do with him will not be lost. it will just become an ingrained thing in him

-also remember it is important that you decide what you want you're kids to have easy, whatever u want them to have easy you gotta do the hard work Very Happy

it helps to think about whats hard for you and try do it with you're child.

a good example to explain why you should make these things so natural for you're child is brushing you're teeth. if you are not in a good habit of having clean teeth it will not bother you not to brush. but if you are so used to having a clean mouth it will feel disgusting to have dirty teeth so you will never forget to brush..
same with making brachas, and washing negel vasser in the morning. if you are sooo used to it you will finally come to feel as if you missed something or you feel like your hands are dirty from the tumah if you forget. so you wont usually...

so now to be very practical, here is a list of a few things you can do with you're child whatever age etc...

1. modeh ani when child wakes up
2. negel vasser
3. small kids davening, such as torah tzivah songs, shmah yisroel, and hashem is here hashem is there...
4. washing hands b/4 bread
5. making sure to make brachas (after-brachas would also be great but its usualy hard with younger kids to get them to sit for so long...)
6. for benching after bread there is a short bracha 'b'rich rachamonah...'
7. before bed say shema, and could sing hamalach hagoel.

these are the basics, and mostly what I do with my kids.

btw pm me if you have any other questions!

RedVines

Thu, Sep 20 2007, 11:59 pm

thanks songbliss! I found that so helpful, It is really nice to see such a friendly helpful thread!

Mimisinger

Fri, Sep 21 2007, 12:21 am

I found it helpful also! Ds is only 1 but I try washing his hands (we started this week) but have only done it a few times, at the same time, brushing his teeth is really hard too, so we have to get better at a lot of things.

But thanks song, I really have to try so ds will be good at things that are hard for me.

hadasa

Fri, Sep 21 2007, 12:51 am

A point I think is important to stress for BT parents: Try not to freak out, lose control or get depressed if your kids occasionally rebel. It is perfectly normal for kids sometimes not to want to Daven, bentch, wait six hours after meat or whatever. Be firm, but calm. Sometimes BT parents think "I've failed as an Orthodox mother, in an FFB home this never would have happened." NOT TRUE. Kids are kids, and they won't always easily do what their parents want them too. That's what education is all about.

songbliss

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 12:49 pm

hadasa wrote:

yes this is very true, thank you for pointing it out. I find that alot of BT parents expect & want their kids to be more than the average kid. this is totally understandable seeing as they put in soooo sooo much effort into becoming who they are.

but in essence their kids are normal kids. just like an average kid will want to do what the rest of the class is doing, or even the rest of the world, so will yours. its easier until the teen years. then you have to remember that it is normal for a frum kid to go through stages, such as:

-boys/girls
-non-jewish music
-not wanting to get up early to go to shul
-movies
-cinema
-not so into studying

also another thing to note:

- frum boys learn MUCH harder in school than non frum or non jewish. they are learning much more intense subjects like, gemara, mishneh, rashi, etc etc. therefore as young boys (they usually start them on gemara between 5-7 as far as I know..) when they get home they want to wreck the house b/c they need to get out all that trapped energy. its reeeally tough, especially if you are used to those easy going hebrew academy kids who are so well behaved.

I know its sometimes hard to accept the way frum kids behaved relative to non frum. it is because of a very difficult system.

but on a positive note, I noticed that many non frum kids who are such gorgeous young kids, as soon as they turn teenage you really dont want to know... on the other hand those little rascals who made ur life a misery when they were kids are now responsible and helpfull young men/women, with a good mind on what they have to do.

sorry for rambleing on here... I have soo much more to say on this topic. I have tonz of experience being the daughter of 2 BT's, and my husband is the son of 2 BTs. it can be a tough life. but as long as you dont lose sight of whats important.... and that is "UNDERSTANDING"... you will do fine Very Happy

Ruchel

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 2:29 pm

songbliss, many frum homes allow movies, non Jewish music, boy/girl talking... a problem is that sometimes BTs reject everything from their previous life, even the clean stuff, and the children feel too oppressed and rebel. We don't want that. Do like the neighbours, don't try to be frummer.

amother

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 3:17 pm

Anon to protect my husbands privacy-
I grew up in a home where my parents were BTs. The things I wish they would have engrained in us, as it would have made my life much easier, would have been modeh ani, kriyas shema al hamita, davening on shabbos and vacations (meaning, when not in school), saying brachos, brachos achronos, etc.
I have a hard time remembering to daven, to say brachos achronos, kriyas shema al hamita, because they NEVER were a part of my life until I started working on myself.
From a young age, don't let a kid only daven in school- because thats what my parents did and that made me feel davening is just an in school thing and makes it hard for me to push myself to daven when I do not have 40 minutes set aside to daven, ya know what I mean?

Now my husband on the other hand... his parents were overzealous baalei teshuva who forced their kids to be angels, and it made all their kids snap and "go off" at some point in their life. The main thing was davening with a minyan... my husband still has a hard time davening with a minyan because he was FORCED to go to daven with a minyan every single day...

My advice- show mitzvos as a treat and dont force your kid- rather "let them have this privelege" of doing such and such a mitzva.

saboni

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 4:27 pm

Songbliss, I loved your list of things you do with your kids. I say modeh ani, the psukim, and shema with my baby, but never thought of davening with him! Thanks for the great idea, I'm going to try to do it.

Motek

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 6:10 pm

songbliss wrote:

... then you have to remember that it is normal for a frum kid to go through stages, such as:

-boys/girls
-non-jewish music
-not wanting to get up early to go to shul
-movies
-cinema
-not so into studying

Normal? What do you mean by that?

And as Ruchel pointed out, in some Orthodox homes, this is fine.

TammyTammy

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 6:12 pm

Motek wrote:

songbliss wrote:

Normal? What do you mean by that?

What she means is "don't freak out if your kids don't act like a malach 24/7. If they show an interest in girls/boys, music, etc., don't go crazy and think that this is the first step towards going off the derech. It's a normal part of teenage rebellion."

Of course, that doesn't mean that these issues shouldn't be addressed... but don't think "oy vey the world is over" because of it either.

Tammy

Motek

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 6:25 pm

TammyTammy wrote:

We'll see if that is what she meant. If she did, I disagree. Not doing these things by no stretch of the imagination defines the child as an angel 24/7. And who says that teenage rebellion is normal? I think that if a child is not coming from a home or environment which tolerates or encourages these activities, on the contrary, then they are cause for worry.

TammyTammy

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 6:39 pm

Motek wrote:

TammyTammy wrote:

I agree with you that in a home where these things are encouraged there is cause for worry.

But, nonetheless, it is pretty well established that teens rebel, and sometimes these are the forms that the rebellion takes. Are these the *only* forms? Of course not - but these could be things that happen. As I said earlier, they need to be addressed -- but it's not the end of the world if you find a Billy Joel CD in your kids' room.

Tammy

Ruchel

Mon, Oct 15 2007, 6:43 pm

actually many parents would kill for such a rebellion (instead of smoking, drugs, wanting to go out at night, risky behaviours and boy/girlfriends).

hadasa

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 8:29 am

My husband warned me that now that my son is in Yeshivah, he'll come home for Pesach with new Minhagim and shtick and opinions on things that we're doing all wrong. I said "Halevai, may that be the only type of teenage rebellion we'll ever see!"

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