Am I a bad mom? | Imamother

mimivan

Mon, Oct 08 2007, 10:23 pm

momtomor wrote:

Yeah, I really don't think that playgroup for my son is actually harmful, or even not good for him. In fact, I stand by my position that it IS good for him.

So are you a perfect mom sits and plays with her children all day long? I'm sorry, but not all of us can be perfect.

I did try to be this kind of mom momtomor, and guess what? My 2 year old asked me, after I proudly kept him at home, "Can I go to gan?"

Now I suppose to some that would be like asking to drink clorox, but he actually was able to make friends and develop his social skillls there...

Motek

Mon, Oct 08 2007, 11:28 pm

momtomor wrote:

In fact, I stand by my position that it IS good for him.

YOU were the one who started this thread which you entitled, "Am I a bad mom?" Was this yet another one of those threads in which you wanted everybody to agree with your position? Rolling Eyes

Where does perfection come in here? GR wrote about keeping her children home until 3 and she gave many practical suggestions. So did Tamiri. But you had made up your mind, as you wrote in the first post, and so this thread was solely for us to pat you in your back and tell us that G-d forbid, you're not a bad mother. After all, you and your husband say you want the best for your child.

mimivan - Sad that on a forum called "imamother," that you don't know why babies need their mothers.

Beauty and the Beast

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 12:59 am

I dont understand, arent we all different? dont we each have our own ways in which we raise our kids? why should there be so much anger and such spewing forward in posts? opinions are fine, as long as you dont try to force it on others...
If a mom was looking for some guidance, or peace of mind, give it to her if you can.

mimivan

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 1:07 am

Motek wrote:

momtomor wrote:

In fact, I stand by my position that it IS good for him.

YOU were the one who started this thread which you entitled, "Am I a bad mom?" Was this yet another one of those threads in which you wanted everybody to agree with your position? Rolling Eyes

Where does perfection come in here? GR wrote about keeping her children home until 3 and she gave many practical suggestions. So did Tamiri. But you had made up your mind, as you wrote in the first post, and so this thread was solely for us to pat you in your back and tell us that G-d forbid, you're not a bad mother. After all, you and your husband say you want the best for your child.

mimivan - Sad that on a forum called "Imamother," that you don't know why babies need their mothers.

Nice one, Motek....I was talking about 2 year olds going to a playgroup for a few hours... not giving a baby away to adoption...
While I agree with you on almost every other issue, I think you are quite inflexible to the extreme in this area Motek... perhaps it is due to personal experience with ganim?. As someone who kept her first child home until three, and see that a few hours with other children from 2 to 3 could be beneficial, I resent this comment and am secure in the knowledge that I certainly don't deserve, your insinuations of parental neglect.

Last edited by mimivan on Tue, Oct 09 2007, 1:55 am; edited 1 time in total

Tamiri

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 1:47 am

I think the main issue here is that so many mothers claim "I can't handle him/her so s/he needs socialization and I am shipping him/her off to the nearest pre-school so that s/he can be mothered by someone else. I can't be bothered". While that is honest, it does not say much for the person who chose to have a baby. I imagine that is what gets most mothering moms all in an uproar. Because al panav, there is nothing inherantly (sp?) wrong with a 2 year old being out of the house 2-3 times/week for 2-3 hours. If you don't have 35 kids in the same group, and if you trust the morah etc. I don't think any "expert" would think it's bad. However, once the child starts going for minimum hours, you start to hear "s/he needs MORE". It's like the candy they gave out Simchat Torah: suddenly my almost 3 yo NEEDED candy and asked for it the morning of ST after getting in at night, and every day now he's asking for it. Does it mean it's good for him? Does it mean he'll get it? It's my job to decide. a 2-3-4 and even 5 yo cannot even BEGIN to know what he needs. Wants are another thing.
Unfortunately, these days, a lot of the mothering instinct is gone or really can't come into play since mom cannot be with her child as nature intended (women "must" work, and many times the must is real). Grandmothers who delivered sage advice are by now more than mixed up themselves: they are staying younger longer, working out of the house and really not sure that it was worth the effort to stay home with their babies. All those missed opportunities etc. So they can't support decisions of their daughters to stay home.
It's interesting to note: Monkeys stay with their babies (the correct term for young monkeys IIRC) longer than humans do at this point.

mimivan

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 2:04 am

Tamiri:
Kol ha kavod...this is sage and sympathetic advice and is really something to think about....Thanks for finding the right words so that those of us who yes, "must" work can at least rethink our options, rather than judging us!

I agree also that ganim and the "establishment" pressure a parent to doubt her abilities...as well as social pressure... food for thought, but as you said, if a child is happy to go for a few hours and if it is a good kosher place, maybe it isnt' the end of the world

I work part-time and have to. And yes, we did go winters without hot water and that was even with me working... I was risking shalom bayis because I refused my husband's request to work more hours and put my son in child care because he just wasn't ready... we could have had hot water and a lot more if we did...which is why I resent the snap judgements

...I tried to put my oldest in gan and 2 and took him out in a few short weeks when I saw it just wasn't working for him. I kept him at home, worked at home nights when he was in bed, and hardly got any sleep, even though I was pregnant, , but I preferred to keep him home than to throw him in a gan before he was ready. Now thank Gd he is fine and happy. He gets up every morning and talks about how much he loves gan.

I think those of us who work should think carefully about our options, but then again, I think we should not be judged when we are clearly trying our best...

I may not be a perfect mother, but I really have to laugh when someone says I don't have any idea why a child needs a mother...

Wink

Tamiri

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 2:33 am

Mimi, this whole thread started with OP who does not work outside the house.
In Israel, in my MO circles, what a mother works at DEFINES her! I work, therefore I am. No mention of mothering. So why the heck do they have kids?
I do understand when people HAVE to work, I did work till my second was born but then somehow... we managed to be poor and live without my working. That is why I am an advocate of husbands getting a good education and a good job, so the wives won't have to be out of the house for too many years.
Whatever, to each her own.

mimivan

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 4:01 am

Tamiri:
Yes, I felt a bit sad when a proud mother of 7 little ones (she has triplets ba'h) asked me if I work and when I said yes, she sighed and said "I really should be doing something with myself..."

I kind of knew what she meant, but it was still kind of sad that she had somehow received the message that being a mother was not "doing something"

gryp

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 10:44 am

Tamiri wrote:

I think the main issue here is that so many mothers claim "I can't handle him/her so s/he needs socialization and I am shipping him/her off to the nearest pre-school so that s/he can be mothered by someone else. I can't be bothered". While that is honest, it does not say much for the person who chose to have a baby. I imagine that is what gets most mothering moms all in an uproar. Because al panav, there is nothing inherantly (sp?) wrong with a 2 year old being out of the house 2-3 times/week for 2-3 hours. If you don't have 35 kids in the same group, and if you trust the morah etc. I don't think any "expert" would think it's bad. However, once the child starts going for minimum hours, you start to hear "s/he needs MORE". It's like the candy they gave out Simchat Torah: suddenly my almost 3 yo NEEDED candy and asked for it the morning of ST after getting in at night, and every day now he's asking for it. Does it mean it's good for him? Does it mean he'll get it? It's my job to decide. a 2-3-4 and even 5 yo cannot even BEGIN to know what he needs. Wants are another thing.Unfortunately, these days, a lot of the mothering instinct is gone or really can't come into play since mom cannot be with her child as nature intended (women "must" work, and many times the must is real). Grandmothers who delivered sage advice are by now more than mixed up themselves: they are staying younger longer, working out of the house and really not sure that it was worth the effort to stay home with their babies. All those missed opportunities etc. So they can't support decisions of their daughters to stay home.
It's interesting to note: Monkeys stay with their babies (the correct term for young monkeys IIRC) longer than humans do at this point.

Great Post!!!

Maya

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 11:54 am

Motek, your post doesn't even warrant a response. I had made up my mind, but still wanted to hear what other women had to say about this topic. And I didn't need everyone to agree with me.

Amother above me, yes, screaming in a room of strangers or hitting other children or fighting would have me worried. The morah assured me that he did none of that. To me, it is very important to teach my son to always be nice to other people. So it was a relief to hear that he behaved nicely.

amother

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 12:38 pm

OMG

You are not a bad mom OP, just clueless perhaps. I wish you lots of naches and luck in raising your BABY who did not scream or react to being in a room full of strangers. What a good boy. And what a great Morah.
Just some inside info: Morahs don't always have to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And mother's aren't supposed to believe whatever they are told. As long as you keep this status quo, you'll be very happy and probably send your BABY to as many days a week, as many hours a week, as you possibly can.
Now, what are you going to do with all your spare time? Hmmm... there are no other babies in the house to care for, you probably have cleaning help.... won't you be bored?

Maya

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 12:52 pm

I know that morahs don't always tell the truth; but this time, I chose to believe her.

You really shouldn't be worrying about what I will do in my spare time. Yes, there are no other babies, but NO, I don't have cleaning help. Not even for an hour a week.
But I am pursuing a college degree and working on a business that I took courses for a year ago. Plus, I have my BABY to take care of for the remaining 7 hours of the day THAT HE IS HOME.

Besides, whatever you say is pretty much disregarded, a) because you are a cowardly amother b) I don't listen to nasty people.

Good luck in raising your BABIES the way YOU decide. And please let the rest of us do the same.

Ruchel

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 12:54 pm

amother wrote:

OMG

why would she be more bored than a childless housewife or a mother with children out of the house (big or in dorm schools)? That's not the topic.

zeldy

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 6:00 pm

oy these discussions are so stupid and endless and pointless.

I work because I like my job. My kids are in school, in preschool and in good quality daycare. They are happy and developing well. Perhaps I should sit and cry and worry all day that the morahs are lying to me and that there is something wrong with my bonding /attachment that the child can just go and play and be social with someone other than me. See me cry and worry : Boo-hoo. Hoo-boo.

Maya

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 6:12 pm

amother wrote:

he didn't scream in a room of strangers! That would have me worried!

Wans't clear, sorry. I meant, the fact that he did just fine would have me worried. Why isn't he more attached to his mom?

I think that being able to be a bit independent is just as important as being attached to his mom. He screams and cries if I leave the house for a minute, even if my husband is home with him. So I'm not worried about that part. But if he's surrounded by kids, that's more fun then being home only with Mommy.

A smart kid knows what to do when. I hope he'll be that when he's older.

Tehilla

Tue, Oct 09 2007, 6:14 pm

Quote:

Wans't clear, sorry. I meant, the fact that he did just fine would have me worried. Why isn't he more attached to his mom?

this response has got to be one of the more ridiculous ones I've read. get real amother. every child reacts differently. some are confident and new situations don't phase them. some cry and are fine 10 minutes later. some cry every day. some get quiet and reserved for a little while. let's try and keep this discussion within some realm of intelligence and compassion.

every mother has a different situation. every child is different. chas v'shalom this obviously-designed to provoke (yes I'm responding) answer should make a mother worry about why her confident child is happy and not screaming. should we worry that yours scream if you put them down? are they then too dependent? it's enough already. there's enough tzaaras in the world right now without picking at each other. Rolling Eyes

songbliss

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 10:49 am

momtomor wrote:

I would like to send my son to playgroup after Succos, when he'll be about 21 months. I am doing it because he is bored out of his mind, and desperately cries for company all day long. My husband and I think that this is the right thing to do now.

Since I am not working and do not have another child, I am being bashed by friends and family for doing it. But I really have only the baby's interest in mind, not myself.

I will probably still send him anyway, I am just wondering if anyone also thinks that it's a bad thing.

I have the same story, except my son is 14 months!! but he walks & has started talking... and pulls down my house just to occupy himself... I started sending him this week and he LOVES it!! he runs out of the door to go in the morning! so I don't feel bad... yes I'd feel bad if he wouldn't want to go...

songbliss

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 10:55 am

momtomor wrote:

Song, you are right that I need something to do; I"m looking into it.

It's interesting that you should mention my husband, with him getting annoyed, especially if the house is not clean. You described the situation exactly. I hate to clean, and if the baby is in playgroup, I will have no excuse to have a messy house.

Lol. Yeah I feel the same way! But I do have a baby at home now (7 weeks old) who wants to be held all day.. its really hard, but I do feel bad if I'm not doing much & the house is a mess... he does have a right to go mad sometimes...