Am I a bad mom? | Imamother

Tamiri

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 2:15 pm

[quote="momtomor"][quote="GR"]

Tamiri: A child who is active doesn't mean that he is not responding well to his mother; it just means that his mother is not entertaining enough, and he wants more.[/quote]

Momtomor: I am going to write something VERY revolutionary here: MOMS NEED TO RELEARN HOW TO MOTHER. The art of mothering was lost as women "found" feminism and relinquished many of their G-d given rights.
SHMA BENEE MUSSAR AVICHA VEAL TITOSH TORAT IMECHA. Who is commanded to teach her child here (hint: she bore the child...)
There, I wrote it.
Your child may be particularly active, I have had a couple of those myself. Only you can monitor him and know what makes him so active and what can calm him. So you find an outlet for it. How is sticking that child in a group situation going to help, except that you no longer see what's happening? I don't get it. Does the child come home calmer from preschool? The same?

Tamiri

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 2:21 pm

[quote="mimivan"][quote="chocolate moose"]

Motek wrote:

mimivan - sounds like the kibbutz mentality and we know that that cruel experiment was a disaster

I went to a chinuch class and the rebbetzin said a big problem immigrants to Eretz Yisroel make is that they do not want to accept the culture here. They want to do everything their own way and their children pay the price. For instance, nosh is big here in E.Y (I know you are going to love that GR)... I never wanted to give my kid nosh. The rebbetzin said, "Isn't it enough you live in a non-religious neighborhood where this is not kosher and that is not kosher? Do you have to single him out and leave him out of nosh at parties because you don't want to give him nosh"

I would find another rebbetzin... if you feel those noshes risk the health of your child, should you give them to him just because "it's the norm"? What if he's radically allergic to food coloring, or the E's and sugar make him hyper active? I would rethink that kind woman's words...

The same thing applied to my wanting to keep him at home longer than the other mothers. By the time he finally did go, the other kids didn't know who he was. If I were to keep him home and send him on playdates, no other kids would be able to make playdates with him because they are busy at gan?

We came to Israel when my #4 was 4 years old. Waaaaay too late to make friends at gan, right? Well, he's now 8 and one of the most sought after kids in our neighborhood!

Tamiri

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 2:28 pm

[quote="mimivan"]GR..

First of all, people here do not think of gan as "daycare." It is difficult to explain, but it really is a different culture here. Gan is not about abandoning your kids

Mimi, how long have you been here? If gan is not daycare (minimum 8-1 6 days a week. often before 8 until 4 or so for an additional fee), then what would you call it????
The way I see it, it's a place to put your kids for a lot of hours, many days a week. For some even that isn't enough and they have the Tzaharon for extra hours. True, ganim have educated gannanot, but how great is that when there are 35 kids in the group, and many time you have age 3+-5+ mixed?
Which is not to say my little one won't go to gan... he may, when I feel he should be exposed to that type of environment. I did put my 4+ yo in gan when we got here and it was fine. I can't imagine putting a younger child in that. The private ones may be a bit better... but also double the cost.

Tamiri

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 2:39 pm

Regarding those bunkbeds: I have FIVE... count 'em: 5!!!! boys and... (drum roll) bunkbeds!!!!
My boys have parents who discipline D I S C I P L I N E them. Rarely are they potched, in case you are wondering. They are forbidden to go on the top bunk for ANY reason, so help them, unless they happen to be the one sleeping up there (one kid, going on 5 years this Sukkot that we have had the bunkbed). I am home to enforce E N F O R C E the rules around here. There are repercussions for misbehaving, which include climbing up on the top bunk bed. Have I ever had to get one of my kids or their friends down from the top? You bet! Did it happen more than a couple of times? NO.
I rely on something simple called PARENT POWER to keep the house running. The kids don't run it, Abba and Imma do.
This helps in all walks of life, including having active kids who need group care to calm themselves. Discipline, what your mothers knew and practiced, goes a long way in calming children and having them sit by your feet as you work. It's not magic, it's traditional child rearing, what this new generation of parents has totally lost.
Novel, huh????

Ruchel

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 2:53 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Nice to read Tamiri.

Could you share some tips?

Nikki

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 3:11 pm

If you have a child who is a little bit more active then I don't think that sending them out to a SMALL group is so bad for a FEW hours. I sent my two year old to a group of a total of five kids. She loved it. She was not active just very spoiled. It was the best thing for her. Everyone commented on what a different child she was including my mother who never sent her kids out and she had ten one after another.

Tamiri

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 3:22 pm

I don't think that the thread was about sending a young child out for a few (2? 3?) hours/day a few (2? 3?) days/week. It's about sending a less than 2 year old out 5 days/week for 6 hours at a time. Hopefully nothing terrible will happen to a baby in a limited social environment (few kids) for a short period of time, when mom is not there to supervise. It's different in a "class" of kids who are there for long hours, every day.
Also, if the child is spoiled: is Mommy going to fix herself or keep looking for quick fixes on the outside? Quick fixes are only good for a limited amount of time, then you have to find another one. More hours at pre school? This is food for thought, not a frontal attack though it may read this way. Spoiled children don't get any easier with age, the demands just grow and mom turns into more of a shmatta than before.

Nikki

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:38 pm

I used the wrong word. My daughter was not spoiled she was just too atached to me. She wouldn't go to anybody but me. She was 22 months and I was due in two months and I knew that if I didn't take care of it before the baby then it will only get worse especially if she feels that the baby took over her place. So I sent her out for 3 1/2 hours.

The first day I sat with her for half and hour and the next day she cried for ten minutes and by the third day she loved it. The place only had four kids at the time and the teacher was amazing. I was looking for two months and this was the first option that I found acceptable. I wouldn't just send her anywhere. Also it only was for three months until school was out. It worked out perfect. After that she went to my mother no problem and now she loves the baby.

B"h after the baby was born she never felt neglected bec. she went to school like a regular day and when she came home I tried to give her attention and to her make it seem as if the baby is on the sidelines. If she wasn't happy in the playgroup then I would have taken her out and made other arrangements.

I think that every mother has to do what they feel is right for their child. Every mother knows their child best.

mimivan

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 8:50 pm

[quote="Tamiri"]I don't think that the thread was about sending a young child out for a few (2? 3?) hours/day a few (2? 3?) days/week. It's about sending a less than 2 year old out 5 days/week for 6 hours at a time. Hopefully nothing terrible will happen to a baby in a limited social environment (few kids) for a short period of time, when mom is not there to supervise. It's different in a "class" of kids who are there for long hours, every day.
Also, if the child is spoiled: is Mommy going to fix herself or keep looking for quick fixes on the outside? Quick fixes are only good for a limited amount of time, then you have to find another one. More hours at pre school? This is food for thought, not a frontal attack though it may read this way. Spoiled children don't get any easier with age, the demands just grow and mom turns into more of a shmatta than before.[/quote]

Tamiri...then read the OPs original post!!

Motek

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:27 am

liked your post mamabear! the long one which you ended with, "what in the world is my rush to have him be away from his mommy already???!!!"

mimivan wrote:

with boys, chinuch begins and 3 and they should be in cheder.

says who? they can learn with mommy

mimivan wrote:

the inner maternal voice that speaks for my own child knows best...

really? so you know no mother who makes mistakes?

mimivan wrote:

The rebbetzin's point was that, in the frum world, we say "no" so often, that we should think long and hard about additional "nos" that are beyond the letter of the law.

Why is she saying no so much, in the frum world? I fail to comprehend her ideas on chinuch and parenting. What are her children like (and how old are they)?

Motek

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:29 am

Nikki wrote:

What if you have three kids that are three and under, how do you entertain each child at the same time according to their needs?

good question!

Quote:

She was there for four hours and for two of the hours she napped.

and you pay for her to nap two hours in someone else's house? Confused

GR wrote:

Compare that with my 25 month old- toilet-trained, been talking since 15 months- no exaggeration. his social skills are excellent, he is a brilliant master of communication.
He begs me every morning to take him to Yeshiva where there is a class for him and the teacher is great, I trust her with my kids. School is free. Do I send him? I debated for a few days and decided NO. He needs this time to be home with me. I need to teach him "life skills" geared to his age and intellectual capability before sending him off. He will be in school for the next two decades IYH once he turns 3 (next year).

KOL HA'KAVOD GR!

Quote:

I have heard numerous times that the first 3 years of a child's life stay with him forever. The first 3 years of my children's lives, IYH Please Hashem, they will be home with me where I know exactly what they are doing at all times, I know what they are absorbing and how they are being influenced.

KOL HA'KAVOD GR!

Quote:

It is missing out a vital year of "Mommy-time," and that can never be made up later.

right

Quote:

Not being sent to daycare and not being fed absolute garbage is two MAJOR factors in a child's mental/emotional and physical health. To sacrifice main components of a child's health only for the sake of fitting in, is absolutely horrendous parenting. I'm shocked that such bad advice is given at a chinuch class.

I agree.

Motek

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:31 am

suomynona wrote:

GR wrote:

I want to know how come we all remember kids being calm and quiet and playing nicely, but all the children in this generation "really needs daycare" because they are so hyper, disobedient, and wild.
What has changed?

Dont know where you got those words from. I call it "active". And my whole point is that NOT all children are like that.

Quote:

To deny that it is best for a child to be with his mother is a denial of the basics of the relationship between a mother and child. That's not at all like putting a kid on a bunkbed to sleep. If you take away the foundation of a child's security, which is his nurturing mother, then what is he left with?

Please cut out the melodramatics.. A child who is a way a few hours a day is not being denied a relationship with his mother and his foundation of security isn't taken away. He still spends most of his life at home with his Mommy. He just gets to have a little bit organized activity with other kids his age during the day, that's all. I think most people agree that that's not a necessity at that age, but it's very good for some.

Melodramatics? Nebech ... I'm sorry to see motherhood denigrated on a forum called Imamother.

This thread is not about a child but about a baby, under two years of age. It's not about a few hours a day but about 5 hours a day. I have yet to hear ANY benefits whatsoever in having a baby being taken care of in a group situation by a paid employee.

Tamiri wrote:

I rely on something simple called PARENT POWER to keep the house running. The kids don't run it, Abba and Imma do.
This helps in all walks of life, including having active kids who need group care to calm themselves. Discipline, what your mothers knew and practiced, goes a long way in calming children and having them sit by your feet as you work. It's not magic, it's traditional child rearing, what this new generation of parents has totally lost.
Novel, huh????

Oh my! How did you discover this radical approach? Wink

shayna82

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:34 am

I sent my son at 3 years old to school for a half day. 4 hours. because of his active nature and his need for stimulation, I decided it was the best thing. I am not working outside the home, and it wasnt to get rid of him c'v. my second son, has a different personality, and im not so sure I will send him next september when he is 3 and four months. he is fine being occupied by the toys and activities I can provide for him, however I do thinkthat the social aspect of going to preschool at this age is very important. I think everyone does whats best for them, and there should be no bashing of other mothers choices, because after all, who are you to judge? (you meaning anyone)

Tamiri

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:39 am

Motek wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

uot;]I rely on something simple called PARENT POWER to keep the house running. The kids don't run it, Abba and Imma do.
This helps in all walks of life, including having active kids who need group care to calm themselves. Discipline, what your mothers knew and practiced, goes a long way in calming children and having them sit by your feet as you work. It's not magic, it's traditional child rearing, what this new generation of parents has totally lost.
Novel, huh????

Oh my! How did you discover this radical approach? Wink

By having children whom I wish to bring to responsible adulthood, how else Idea

?????

My tombstone will not have engraved on it: "Here lies a wonderful ex-employee who sacrificed her family for us" and "Thanks for sending us to daycare, mom". I want to die guilt free. I realized early on what price I would have to pay to merit that.

mimivan

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 4:11 pm

Motek wrote:

liked your post mamabear! the long one which you ended with, "what in the world is my rush to have him be away from his mommy already???!!!"

mimivan wrote:

with boys, chinuch begins and 3 and they should be in cheder.

says who? they can learn with mommy

mimivan wrote:

the inner maternal voice that speaks for my own child knows best...

really? so you know no mother who makes mistakes?

mimivan wrote:

The rebbetzin's point was that, in the frum world, we say "no" so often, that we should think long and hard about additional "nos" that are beyond the letter of the law.

Why is she saying no so much, in the frum world? I fail to comprehend her ideas on chinuch and parenting. What are her children like (and how old are they)?

Motek:
What about the minhag with the Upsherin and boys should say aleph Beis in the cheder they will attend?

The Rebbetzin's advice was all about choosing battles, not stuffing your kid's head with nosh and pushing him into gan.
It was also about socialization...

I know all mother's make mistakes, but if you cannot trust your conscience, then who can you trust.

I am also not talking about an all day situation for babies...

I tried having my son home from 2-3...he was happier going to gan for half a day and staying home part of the day. I know in your book I am probably a lousy mother for this. I usually agree with you, so I willl continue to agree with you....he must prefer the lousy mother who lets him go to gan to the "excellent" mother who kept him home all day, since he says every morning "I want to go to gan!" (and no, I don't think he hates me)

Either I must be a real drag for him to be around, or he must (shock horror!!!) actually like being with other kids for part of the day. How warped of him ! LOL

I have faced fanatacism on the other side, and have hade one cheek slapped for NOT sending my kid to gan between 2 and 3 and the other cheek slapped right now for sending my kid to gan (which he likes very much!) between the ages of 3 and 4 (not to mention he is a special needs child who needs tipul...)

I am tired of fanaticism from both sides, frankly....and have no guilty conscience about sending my now 4 year old to a gan/cheder he enjoys very much...