8 yr old drew disturbing picture - looking for professional

FranticFrummie

Wed, May 10 2017, 4:12 pm

amother wrote:

Hug me all you like for the above post. I don't know what sect you anonymous huggers ascribe to, but please note that in the majority of frum communities worldwide we realize how dangerous abuse it and therefore hold that it requires reporting to the secular authorities. (And I'm very right wing too. Yeshivish).

I didn't hug you, but maybe the others did because they sensed from the way you wrote, that you had some bad experiences.

I don't know, just trying to give the benefit of a doubt.

(I go through life assuming that all hugs are supportive. It saves my sanity that way.)

little neshamala

Wed, May 10 2017, 5:06 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

OP, I wish you lots of luck finding the right therapist. Good for you for being alert!

I would ask open ended, non leading questions. "That's an interesting picture. Who's that guy? Why do you think he's saying that? Is that someone you know?"

Keep your face and voice curious and neutral, like he was showing you a drawing of a tree. Allow a lot of time between questions, so that he doesn't feel like he's being interrogated.

Just keep it light and conversational, and allow him to talk as much or as little as he wants. His body language will show you as much as his words.

G-d willing, the guy in the picture will just be a cranky old man with a foul mouth, who's complaining that the water is too hot - or something similarly innocent. Hug

PS: Don't mind comments about "who's supervising him?" If you son is old enough to go to a public restroom by himself, then he is old enough to go to the mikva. All the personal safety rules apply in both places, and I'm sure you've already taught him about his "private areas".

[/b]

Agree 100% with everything besides the last paragraph. 8 years old is too young to be unsupervised in a mikva. Children can know what to do, and exactly how to respond etc etc from here to tomorrow, but to expect them all to be able to react exactly as taught in a situation ch"v is not smart, nor is it safe.

Yes there are perverts everywhere and we always need to be on guard. But mikvas are known to be breeding territory, and there's no reason an 8 year old boy should be there alone.

amother

Denim

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:39 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Thank you for taking the time to respond. He doesn't go to the mikvah! He knows about it obviously, I'm sure kids in his class talk about it. He actually drew this picture in school, and his Rebbi (kudos to him) shared it with me. He does not know I've seen the picture, so I'm not sure if it's OK to question him about it. He will wonder why I have a picture of it etc...

amother

Denim

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:41 pm

Ilovemaryland wrote:

I wouldn't panic if he isn't acting out or doing bad things
My son slways drew pictures of men shooting and stabbing and throwing rockets

All his teachers said he had a very vivid imagination and reads the news too much

He's drawn violent pictures before. Those worried me when he first started, but don't concern me anymore. This is VERY different!

amother

Mauve

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:42 pm

amother wrote:

Does he go with your husband to shul shabbos morning? My husband told me he often sees kids running out of the shul during davening to play elsewhere which unfortunately in some shuls includes the mikva area. Even in shuls where it's supposedly locked it is often left open on shabbos.

yksraya

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:44 pm

Are you sure it was your son who drew it? Maybe it was a classmate that gave it to your son?

Or maybe a boy told him some story of some guy in the mikva, and your son drew the story he heard?

If you know for sure he has never gone to the mikva, why would you worry?

amother

Denim

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:51 pm

little neshamala wrote:

Yeah but theres a huge difference between drawing men being guys and acting generally violent, and drawing a man in a mikva saying weird things. A weirdo in a mikva. Eh....

Hooefully nothing happened but OP is definitely doing the right thing.

OP, what was written in the speech bubbles?

Really disturbing and weird: I'm a pickle, I have boobies, I'm in the mikvah, I kiss people, I'm naked, look at my tush
I feel weird writing this, but I need to figure out what to do. My gut is telling me it's just super immaturity. I've always thought he's social/emotional maturity was low, but this is just beyond. I'm trying to find the best professional I can speak to about this, so if anyone has recommendations let me know...

amother

Denim

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:57 pm

yksraya wrote:

I'm not 100% certain. The Rebbi said after recess he showed it to another child and that boy told the Rebbi he's making pictures. The Rebbi took it away, and then looked at it later on. It's very possible he was drawing someone else's story, but I need to make sure my son is OK... Even if it didn't happen to him (and hopefully not), I still think a child that age should not be drawing such pictures. It's disturbing. He needs to know it's not OK. This is a delicate situation, and I don't trust myself to address it properly, therefore looking for professional help.

momofqts

Thu, May 11 2017, 12:16 am

1) call relief
2) be careful about how u question your son. U can ask him to explain the pic but I would suggest stopping there. Asking the wrong question can change the way he thinks.
3) jcw should not be contacted unless you know for sure something happened to him.
Which is hopefully not the case.
Good luck!

crust

Thu, May 11 2017, 8:27 am

amother wrote:

I tried! There was a msg saying the staff was in training. I will call back tomorrow...

I can tell you what I remember off hand;
Rabbi Twersky in Boro Park (I don't know if he accepts children)
Mordche Weinberger has yiddish speaking therapists in his center
Yisroel Tietelbaum in Monsey
Mordche Klien in Williamsburg
Rabbi Shmuel Nieman in Monsey
Klar from Monsey (specializes in trauma, works in chai Lifeline.)

gp2.0

Thu, May 11 2017, 9:25 am

Honestly...if my son did this, and I knew that he never went to the mikvah, we would have a calm talk about how some topics are private and inappropriate to draw in class or talk about in class, but if he ever wanted to discuss them with me I'd be willing to discuss it.

marina

Thu, May 11 2017, 12:01 pm

amother wrote:

I don't find this disturbing, especially if he's never been to mikvah. He probably just knows that people are naked there and finds naked people funny and interesting. Boobies and tush give that away.

He's just starting to learn about s-xually-related topics from his buddies and they talk about boobs and tushies and kissing - not a big deal

I'd be MUCH more concerned if the bubbles said something like "come here" and "You are special" and "sit on my lap" and "be my special friend" and " I like you" and stuff like that.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, May 11 2017, 6:42 pm

Marina, sorry but I think you don't get the severity here. It's obvious that his rebbe and mother are concerned and everyone's here is. Op, your right I would be concerned too.

And chasidish kids don't know the word boobs and don't hear their parents or friends say it either. It's a different type of life then others. I am just explaining. No the boys at this age don't talk about this stuff.

Even girls very minimally. But girls are different.

I hope I explained it well. It's hard to explain it.

And yes I'm chasidish so if my ds would come home with this, I would be just as concerned as she. I would cry. Our children are very sheltered.

Now you can have an argument about it if it's the right way in a s/o but not here.

little neshamala

Thu, May 11 2017, 6:58 pm

I think I agree with marina about this. No matter how sheltered you think you'raising your kids, im sorry, if they're growing up in today's day and age then they are not. And yes im very familiar with the chassidish lifestyle and upbringing. It only takes one classmate to educate your son on what "boobies" are-and I hardly think "boobies" is a word he would learn from a molestor in a mikva.

If this drawing had the same speech bubbles, but didnt take place in a mikva, I wouldnt give it two thoughts.

I am finding it weird that it was set in a mikva, and for that reason I think better safe than sorry, but as far as what the speech bubbles said, it sounds very much like some (or one) of the boys in his class was educating the rest.

amother

Lime

Thu, May 11 2017, 7:14 pm

marina wrote:

I'd be MUCH more concerned if the bubbles said something like "come here" and "You are special" and "sit on my lap" and "be my special friend" and " I like you" and stuff like that.

As a survivor of s-xual abuse by a very chassidish relative, I can say; all these phrases you used as red flags go hand in hand with what the child wrote.
To a child from a decent home, The words sit on my lap or you are special are just normal. Why would he make a fuss of it?
But the other words the child wrote are not used in our communities even in more advanced homes. I guess OP knows the parent body of her own child's school. LOL

Had she known that its possibly the wordong of a child coming from a more opened house she would have no reason for concern.

I am amazed that the child expressed himself on paper. I wish I wouldve done it at his age. Would've been much easier to heal.
Kados to you OP! I promise he can heal with timely intervention. Hang in there!!