What's considered gifted? Does it matter?

amother

Slateblue

Fri, Jun 09 2017, 3:39 pm

Teacher referred DD (4 years old) for a special ed evaluation because she said she does everything very slowly in the classroom plus seems socially out of tune and sometimes a little out of it in general.

I just got back the report from the psychologist who tested her and instead of maybe a processing issue which I expected, the report said she did great in every way.

Her full scale IQ was 125 or 95th percentile, but that's skewed a little down because she did a lot lower in working memory. Technically her score was average but with other scores in much higher percentiles it could explain why something seems a little "off."
Then her achievement test results were also very advanced - 98th and 99th percentile on reading and math. She does have a very enriching home environment but still that's really impressive to me.

So it just hit me that maybe the reason she seems a little out of it could be because she's on a different, higher level than her peers? Though that wouldn't explain why she does everything sooooo slowly in school (the evaluator said she worked at a fine speed, and her processing speed score was high too) and why she often doesn't seem to remember what she learned in school.

amother

Pewter

Fri, Jun 09 2017, 3:57 pm

amother wrote:

Why was she given an IQ test?

The fact that there is significant variation between sub-tests suggests that there are learning differences. "Learning difference" doesn't mean "stupid." It means Learns Differently. Your child may well be twice exceptional, the term for children who are both gifted and have learning differences. I have one of those.

amother

Slateblue

Fri, Jun 09 2017, 3:59 pm

amother wrote:

IQ test is a standard part of the special ed evaluations here.
I also thought it was notable that she did only average (maybe high average) on working memory while everything else was either superior or very superior. But the tester said she is more than fine and doesn't need any help with anything. Which is not what the teacher is seeing functionally in the classroom, though it makes sense in a private testing situation.

amother

White

Fri, Jun 09 2017, 5:33 pm

I was told that giftedness is defined as being at least two grade levels above in (I can't remember this part) at least one or two areas.
In your child's case, your child performed differently in the classroom and in a one-on-one setting. That may be the issue, not giftedness. Does your child have difficulty processing information when there is noise or other distractions? Socially, does your daughter do better at playdates at home than in social situations at school? The DOE tests processing speed, but it doesn't test processing speed in the typical classroom setting. Keep that in mind. Your child was tested in a quiet place with one adult in the room.

amother

Goldenrod

Sun, Jun 11 2017, 2:34 pm

As someone gifted with some other issues, it is quite striking to me that she performs differently in school and at testing. I was like that too

In my case, I was a disaster in school, but I am very gifted - I was tested for the first time at age 5 and they said I was gifted and everything was fine. Except at school I wasn't fine. And yes, I was bored, but my being ahead of my peers wasn't the problem. Here were my problems, all of which were only diagnosed later: ADHD, mild sensory processing disorder (I get easily overwhelmed by sensory input, especially auditory and touch), dyspraxia (a coordination problem which affects motor tasks). All these things made it impossible for me to function well in a classroom setting, regardless of how bright I was. I could sit at home or in the library and teach myself any topic and know it better than the average adult. But in school, I was the kid who never paid attention in class, the teachers all thought I was lazy, couldn't get through classwork or homework, though I still got all A's. They couldn't figure it out. Once I was 7 and re-tested, then it became clear that I had ADHD. So you just have to keep testing your kid every year.

So, it could be that your child has another issue (or issues) - it could be an early sign of ADD (slow moving and spaced out are often early signs of ADD (but not ADHD), but not yet enough for diagnosis), it could be a sensory problem (all the sensory input in the classroom is overwhelming and she can't stay on task or get things done quickly because of the distraction), or maybe a mild auditory processing disorder, or maybe it could be a problem in social skills which makes it hard to function in a group setting, etc. These are things that could be very problematic in a group setting (at school), but not really problematic one-on-one (e.g. at home, or at testing).

Basically, the only thing to do is to keep testing her. She might grow out of her slow moving / spacey phase, or they might find a problem later, 4 years old is sometimes too early to diagnose (though not always). You may want to consider an evaluation with a pediatric developmental neurologist (forgot what they are called exactly), as they can diagnose things that an evaluation for learning disabilities would not catch, especially at age 4. Also, you might do well in talking to a professional to figure out how to teach your daughter some adaptive strategies for functioning in a school setting.

Either way, I'm sure she'll be fine and she'll learn to use her strengths to overcome her weaknesses.

TwinsMommy

Sun, Jun 11 2017, 8:14 pm

someone said above that the board of ed won't do anything if your child tests well academically?

Here in Ohio that's definitely not true. I've got two children officially classified as gifted with very high IQs and they are both in special ed (one in public school and one got kicked out of public school into an alternative program due to behaviors). They've got autism, adhd.... all sorts of stuff going on, and their IEPs are more important to me than their WEPs. Their behaviors have affected their performance in school a great deal in terms of social and behavioral and emotional etc etc etc but academics aren't a concern.

In the public schools here, nothing is done for kids with high IQ until at least kindergarten or first grade. OFFICIALLY in 3rd grade on up, but for kids who really need it, there is individualization in K-2. (or at least there was for one of my kids).

amother

White

Sun, Jun 11 2017, 8:22 pm

TwinsMommy wrote:

In nyc, the DOE is not really helpful if your child tests well academically. They are really there to help the academically weak students. IF there is a discrepancy between testing and performance at school, the parents and school have to make a case and say, "look, I know xyz tested well, but his/her grades are not reflective of that. Something is going on here. This child is not performing to his/her capacity. " Bringing in a failing test score, or a terrible report card can really help you make your case. Also, the nyc DOE may not give special education support to the child that tests well., instead they may give counseling and a related service (speech or ot). Although each case is different, and depends on which administrator you get. Some are sympathetic and some or not. No rule of thumb.

marina

Sun, Jun 11 2017, 10:12 pm

When I explained it to parents, OP, I would always explain that your intelligence is made up of your verbal abilities and your perceptual abilities. The way that intelligence is displayed to the world, however, comes through your processing speed and working memory abilities. Those are the four main components of a WISC IQ test.

So a kid with your child's profile may be very gifted in many areas, but have trouble displaying it because her working memory is lagging behind. There are certainly further approaches for inquiry and additional questions I could ask, but none of this matters because:

Your child is four years old. Her IQ is not stable.

An IQ test at this age is only useful if the result is very low. Not if it is very high. A high IQ score at 4 may even out by 8-10 years of age or may stay high. Even her academic scores do not matter. A 98-99%ile could easily just mean that she can write her name and sound out some short words- because the majority of kids aren't skilled at that yet at 4.

In short: ignore the test. Expose your daughter to interesting, fun, and challenging activities like you would any other child. Provide a nurturing and calm environment and encourage curiosity. If you can make reading/math fun, go ahead and teach her some reading and math

In a few years, see how she's doing in elementary school and if you still have concerns, have her evaluated again.

marina

Sun, Jun 11 2017, 10:24 pm

amother wrote:

Specially designed instruction is for children who meet specific criteria for one of 13 disability categories delineated by federal law. If the child is doing well academically, behaviorally, and socially, he or she may be disqualified from all categories and may not qualify at all. The team considers all sources of information, including the testing scores, teacher reports, etc.

amother

Mint

Mon, Jun 12 2017, 9:46 am

My father A"H was an educator with a degree in testing and admin. When I was in first grade (in a school he had previously taught in so he was familiar with the teachers on a professional basis) I was not performing well in school. The teacher spoke to my father and recommended remediation. My father did some basic testing on me (IQ, and basic academics-this goes back almost 40yrs) and it all came back that I was not only not 'below average' but that I was well 'above' (even years later he refused to tell me the scores). Instead of remediation, my father asked the teacher to move me from the lowest math and reading groups to the highest. She was leary, but willing to try it. Suddenly (they say within a week) I went from not 'being able to do the work' to the 'top performer in the class'. I had obviously been bored and, as such, totally uninterested.