Teacher taking away recess

petiteruchy

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 1:38 pm

Taking away recess is lazy, retributive discipline, especially for elementary school.

It might be "effective" in that recess is the kid's favourite part of the day, so they will do anything not to miss it, but so is spanking in that sense. What taking away recess doesn't do is solve the core problem. If a child is misbehaving during class time, there's a reason, and you need to find out why. If you find out why, you can start to fix it, and if you don't know why, taking away their break is not going to help anything long term.

Once the child is in high school it's a bit different, and definitely a student may have to take time out of their own schedule to meet their responsibilities (coming in at lunch to write a test, staying up late to finish a project or study etc), but by that age it's rare that a teacher would find it useful to "take away" recess. Either the child will finish their work at recess of their own volition, or they will accept getting lower marks because it's late, etc.

I think educators should see some things as untouchable when it comes to discipline... you'd never keep a child out of math class as punishment for something they did in history, and gym, recess and lunch are as precious and crucial to their learning as any other period.

33055

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 2:41 pm

petiteruchy wrote:

Out of curiosity, what should an educator do in a big class in the middle of a lesson ?

What consequences would you give?

rachel0615

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 4:53 pm

I feel conflicted about it. I used to never do it, because research shows that kids need to be moving, have chilled time, etc. However, there are some kids who will only respond if their recess is taken away. Any other consequence and it falls to deaf ears- For those kids, I think it is worth it. I do not think the whole recess should be taken except in extreme situations. I do think the kid always deserves an explanation as to why it was taken away and the rational behind the decision, and a plan of how to make tomorrow better.

ValleyMom

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 6:17 pm

TOTALLY inappropriate!!

I am a firm believer of appropriate CONSEQUENCES as opposed to punishment.
The consequence needs to be related to the inappropriate behavior.

EVERY CHILD NEEDS RECESS IN ORDER TO SURVIVE THE SCHOOL DAY.

Taking away recess makes children even more prone to misbehaving.

How does this work? PM me!

33055

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 6:22 pm

ValleyMom wrote:

What consequences and when? You are in an overcrowded classroom and need order.

amother

Ginger

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 7:15 pm

Squishy wrote:

Jewish schools have way more recess than mandated by NYS.

I agree kids don't move around enough, but taking away even one minute of recess is effective.

NY State doesn't mandate recess, but the recommendation is at least 20 minutes a day of active recess. See https://recessfacts.wordpress......ates/ So I guess you're right -- if there's 30 seconds of recess, its 30 seconds more than required. But that doesn't make the lack of recess a good idea.

NY State does requires daily participation in physical education for students in grades K-3 and three times each week for grades 4-6. The minimum time devoted to physical education shall be at least 120 minutes each week. For grades 7-12, the regulations require physical education 3 times per week in one semester, and 2 times per week in the second, or a comparable time each semester if the school is organized in other patterns. https://www.shapeamerica.org//.....e.pdf

So are you saying that "Jewish schools" have "way more" than 2 hours of gym class each week?

Taking away recess is a lazy teacher's discipline, and its counterproductive for students who need to move.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 7:28 pm

my kids have a 15 minute mid-morning recess, and a 10 minute afternoon one.

gym every other week.

not remotely enough.

Taking recess away is just plain stupid.
It doesn't help the kid, who probably needs MORE running around time.
And it doesn't help the teacher who now has to deal with an even more restless student.
If only damages the relationship, because you can be absolutely sure the resentment that kid feels is what the kid will remember for a long, long time.

33055

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 7:39 pm

amother wrote:

Please provide an alternative for all the lazy teachers who use this approach? I have now asked 3 times.

Please provide documentation that the teachers are lazy. I think a lazy teacher would let anything go. After all, it takes energy to control a class.

You are just reposting the point to raised before. Asked and answered. Move on. You didn't address a method to replace taking away up to 5 minutes of recess.

BTW, I don't think your info is totally correct. You would do better if you used primary sources.

33055

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 7:40 pm

amother wrote:

OTOH if taking away up to 5 minutes of recess is so bad, then the kids dread this.

What do you suggest replacing this with? 4th time requesting a replacement.

petiteruchy

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 7:50 pm

I was the first one to say lazy. It's lazy because you get an immediate result without having to provide any follow through or do any detective work. It's lazy the same way that spanking is lazy... you get to react in a way that gets an immediate result without having to change your behavior, your reaction or the environment.

You're in a kindergarten classroom. Kid A throws his paper on the floor and refuses to trace his letters.
"A, if you don't pick that up and do your work, you'll have to stay in during recess!"
Teacher doesn't have to wonder why Kid A is unable or unwilling to do the work. She threatens, it either works or it doesn't. If it does, Kid A had the self-control, processing and planning skills to take a future loss and weigh his options. That kid ALREADY has the self control to make good choices and follow through, he just needed to be reminded.

If the threat doesn't work and Kid A loses recess, it's most likely because he doesn't have the self control, processing and planning skills to change his behavior. It means that currently the behavior is out of his control and it's the teacher's job to figure out either how to teach him the skills to adapt, or to change the environment to suit the child's abilities.

Last edited by petiteruchy on Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

petiteruchy

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 7:58 pm

The alternative is not a one liner. It requires the teachers to have a plan in place before they get to the point where they're threatening things. It requires a behavior plan that is understood and followed through by all the staff. It can include loss of privileges, but recess is not a privilege.

It requires teachers to actually think about why students react the way they do, and to teach inhibition, planning, time management, all those executive function skills.

It also requires teachers to change what they see as acceptable. Beating unruly students used to be an accepted and common punishment, but when teachers took that out of their toolbox, they had to adapt. Suspensions are another tool that used to be widely used and is now seen as ineffective and overly punitive.

petiteruchy

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:02 pm

Squishy wrote:

What consequences and when? You are in an overcrowded classroom and need order.

your lack of planning and the school's inability to provide a proper learning environment is not the child's fault. why should they be punished for their inability to function in an inadequate environment?

amother

Jade

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:06 pm

I'm starting to think that it's not a good idea to takeaway recess. Fora regular child.

When your speaking of an ADHD kid then for sure it's not a good idea.

It's counterproductive for them. They are impulsive and restless as it is. Make them sit for longer justmakes them more restless.

For a regular understanding child they need to be warned if they fool around in class they will need to sit afterwards to finish their work. That's the reason I would understand the teacher make them lose recess.

Why else would you make them lose recess?

amother

Jade

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:08 pm

petiteruchy wrote:

In a perfect world the classroom wouldn't be overcrowded. We don't live ina perfect world so teachers need to be creative and patient and understanding. Which doesn't always happen just like us parents are not always patient and understanding. Welcome to the world

amother

Jade

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:12 pm

ceebee wrote:

What are your thoughts on students losing all or part of recess for misbehavior? This type of discipline really bothers me as kids today dont nearly move around as much as they need to. Jewish schools have less recess and gym time than public schools because of the double curriculum. Not sure what the teacher thinks more sitting will do to a child who already is restless from the lack of moving around.

No teacher takes away recess simply cause the child is restless. That's telling me teachers are not very smart.

I beleive a good teacher doesn't do this.

petiteruchy

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:16 pm

amother wrote:

Of course, but when you are an impatient parent and react badly, or when you know you put your children in the situation where they were bound to misbehave (you took them out past their bedtime on an empty stomach, or you potched them because you lost your temper), you don't hold out your reaction as the only possible one and defend it as a perfectly reasonable reaction.

I'm under no misconception that teachers will stop taking recess away any time soon. My child's teacher did it a few weeks ago! But I do think it's important to start thinking about why it's ineffective and a tool that really doesn't have a place in a teacher's toolkit. The more teachers and parents start seeing children as having a right to movement, fresh air and free time, rather than as an extra or a privilege, the better off we'll be.

mammala120

Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:45 pm

Squishy wrote:

I specifically said recess which is what this thread is about. Frum schools have way more recess than mandated. I stand by that.

They are missing other mandated areas, but they are really good with recess. LOL

I don’t know what schools u referring to but in my kids school it’s only 10 min 2x a day. Not even enough time to use bathroom due to long lines