S/o Newsweek; did rabbonim discuss yashrus in shul Shabbos?

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 2:17 pm

The discussion on page 9 of the thread that this is spun off was basically that SMR has an obligation to teach yashrus so that people don't idolize his miracle in the wrong way. His current message is about emunah and bitochon that can bring the geula in the blink of an eye, just as he was miraculously rescued at a moment's notice but so far, I haven't heard anything that he has said about yashrus but if anyone has heard it, please post it.

Yashrus is important, even if it is not a popular subject or even if not everyone takes it seriously. All rabbonim have an obligation to discuss this topic in their Shabbos drashas no more or less so than SMR. I am wondering if anyone here knows if it was discussed in their shul or not and what type of shul that they daven in.

So I am not setting up a poll but the main speaker (litvish) in our shul (Chabad) at the kiddish didn't mention yashrus, although he spoke about SMR and the miracle and I missed the regular drusha because I was setting up the kiddish. My husband davened at a neighborhood litvish shtieble and said that the topic of SMR or yashrus was not mentioned at all by anyone.

So if we should not be losing sight of the fact that this miracle wouldn't have even been necessary if proper yashrus had been observed, then why was this not mentioned at all, or was it mentioned in shuls worldwide, and I need to be more aware of that?

And, did this whole thing happen for some bigger spiritual reason, possibly not related to the lesson of yashrus?

And lastly, is everyone sick and tired of this subject?

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 3:38 pm

marina wrote:

If he speaks about business ethics at a public event, I will personally take back every single negative thing I said about Rubashkin or his family.

I'm pretty comfortable saying that this is never going to happen sorry Sad

But I will be very happy to be proven wrong.

But Marina, what about the other rabbonim who held fabrangens or other celebratory gatherings or even those who did not? Why would it only be up to Rubashkin or his family to say anything about business ethics? Because of whattsapp, most of the Jewish world knew within his first 10 minutes of freedom that a miracle had taken place but that miracle took place for someone convicted of a financial crime and would not have been necessary had that crime not have occurred (or was never prosecuted). So who is it that has the actual achraios to teach yashrus, a convicted felon whose sentence has been commuted, or the rabbonim worldwide who interact with their congregants on a regular basis?

And I agree that he probably will not be speaking to crowds about business ethics and possibly could have already communicated this via email and visitors over the years of his incarceration, but does the obligation begin and end with SMR or do the rabbonim of communities actually have more of an obligation than SMR, especially seeing that their congregants rapidly took to the streets in celebration?

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 4:06 pm

marina wrote:

Of course I agree with you. But the rabbonim in many chabad communities are unlikely to speak about business ethics because this will be seen as a subtle condemnation of Rubashkin and would essentially be professional suicide for some people.

My husband davens in a Litvish minyon on Shabbos and nothing was said about business ethics there either. My question that nobody answered here yet is did ANYONE hear a rabbi speak in shul this Shabbos about business ethics? I even started a spin off thread and nobody answered that question.

Chabad is not the only community that celebrated the return of SMR to his people. Did those posters here that daven in MO shuls hear anything in shul on Shabbos about business ethics? Was it an opportunity wasted or was it addressed and if not why not? Why simply assume that Chabad is afraid to address the issue? The Rubashkins are nowhere near as wealthy as they once were so fear of not getting a donation would not be the reason.

In fact, how often are business ethics brought up in general when a congregation comes together and not just at specific shiurim for that purpose?

My point being is that why would we assume that SMR is personally responsible for the yashrus of a generation if other rabbonim throughout the frum world are silent, except for those who are in liberal groups that condemn the frum world anyway so they are simply disregarded? The rabbi who wrote the Newsweek article is not someone who the average frum person would take seriously because of how he views other halachas.

thunderstorm

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 4:26 pm

It would be nice to hear it straight from the family. I believe it would have a bigger impact.
When the Spinka Rebbe of Boro Park went to jail for a white collar crime, he did speak out publicly letting chasiddim know that what was done was wrong. He explained what brought him to commit the crime and still said that it was wrong and he educated the public about fraud etc. I believe this was around 2009.
I think it's nice that Mr Rubashkin is talking about the importance of emunah. But it would be refreshing to hear him speak about the importance of yashrus. Perhaps he is still on a high from the sudden freedom, he may speak about it in the near future.

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 4:32 pm

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

But so far, I have yet to see a poster say that her rabbi spoke about it and even if it would make a big impact, since he hasn't addressed it yet, nor do we know if he intends to, the question would remain, why isn't that aspect of it being discussed?

And did the Spinka rebbe's declaration of guilt and imploring Jews to observe the laws regarding yashrus make a big difference in the way that the frum community observed those laws?

thunderstorm

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 4:49 pm

southernbubby wrote:

It's been a topic that has been heavily discussed in the heimish world lately. I know that there were big asifas about it recently and they are educating the frum public ( in Monsey for sure) I don't know about other places. I did not hear of anything discussed specifically in regard to Rubashkin. It's very possible that rabbanim discussed it when he was incarcerated but I don't recall of anyone specifically.
And yes, once the Spinka Rebbe spoke out it has become more common in the chasidic circles to have asifas and "continued education" and reminders in regard to legal issues and fraud.

PinkFridge

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 5:13 pm

Did rabbanim mention SMR at all, maybe in the context of the widespread (but obviously not universal) achdus in celebrating? I think they want to let the afterglow glow a little longer, iykwim. (Note: no speech in the shul I attended.)
I don't think he should be a poster boy for yashrus, there are other things he can and should do and did so well before this all started. And as someone said elsewhere, it might not be good for him to do so, let others do it with his explicit approval.
I will say that there are legal holiday shiurim in town every legal holiday, and often they are about Choshen Mishpat issues.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Sun, Dec 24 2017, 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 5:24 pm

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

Well it's great if it is being discussed and people are listening but now everyone is critical of the lack of these declarations in SMR's message, and many are critical of the celebrations and my point is that it is up to rabbonim to have these asifas and shiurim even if SMR eventually does make it his primary message.

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 5:35 pm

amother wrote:

No. Our rabbi didn't talk about business ethics this shabbos. Just about how it was yad Hashem that freed Rabbi Rubashkin etc. etc. He mentioned ethics a different week after the whole thing in Lakewood. Don't know if anyone actually changes their behaviors based on his drashos.

Some rabbonim in Crown Heights tried to issue a proclamation about tznius a few months ago and some people may have taken it to heart and toned down the loud toenail polish or shortened the waist length wigs, or lengthened their skirts but others seem to have ignored it.

If a rabbi has taught the halachos or offered to teach them or makes mention of the fact that people need to study those halachos, than he has at least done his duty and the rest is up to the congregants.

imasoftov

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 3:29 am

Well my shul doesn't have a rabbi, drashot are given by members, and we didn't have a drasha last Shabbat because there was going to be a talk after shul about Haredi responses to the Shoah (didn't go, we had lunch plans) and we don't have a drasha when there's an event right after kiddush. But then Rubashkin wasn't really on the radar in a DL shul in Jerusalem, and there was a more practical yashrut issue being discussed at kiddush and Shabbat tables, the LW and the RW demonstrations against corruption in the Israeli government that would take place on Motzash. As far as I know this is the first time there were protests from both sides of the aisle, in agreement with one another.

southernbubby

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 8:47 am

imasoftov wrote:

I saw a post on FB saying that Congregation Beth Aaron in Teaneck will have something this coming Friday night - "Frum Felons? The Problem of Criminality in Observant Communities" and this article was circulated with the announcement https://images.shulcloud.com/1.....y.pdf

Thanks for posting this article. I read the article which was downloaded 2 days ago but appears to have been written in 2004. I wonder if the problem has increased since then. I also wonder what type of response by community rabbonim would actually make a difference. Rabbonim routinely issue statements about tznius and often this appears to be widely ignored and we see in some frum periodicals where a group interested in changing the inequality of the amount of girls looking for shidduchim to the amount of boys, puts a full page ad advocating for younger boys to go into shidduchim and I am not sure what percentage of people change their behavior because of those ads.

It looks like to change the consciousnesses of a group, you need a group of ground level grass roots activists who take to the streets with flyers, have events and street fairs, and bombard the press with their agenda. I have seen this in regards to agunot had they apparently have had some success with this, although obviously not completely.

But where tznius, age of marriage, and the aguna crisis is something that we see outwardly in society, people usually keep their criminal activities to themselves, until they get caught. Years ago, before kosher food was common jail fare, it was more common to have large fund raising campaigns for pidyon shivuim for those who were facing jail but now, it is unfortunately so common place that those fund raisers either rarely occur, or people donate smaller sums to that.

Possibly if those who have been in jail and those whose spouse or parent was in jail would publish articles about the difficulties and dangers, more people would think twice about breaking laws but we also know about the dangers of distracted driving and it still happens way too often. However, even if it saved a few individuals a year, that would have a big effect on the community.

We also have all agreed on this site and elsewhere that there is more pressure in frum society to live above our means than in the outside world and that this is often the catalyst for illegal behavior.

southernbubby

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 9:06 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Our shul's rabbi didn't speak last week. But I have frequently heard speakers in our shul and our previous shul in New York talk about yashrus / the importance of acting ethically and honestly. I have never heard a rabbi in a shul that I've gone to regularly talk about tznius. I heard many talks about tznius when I was in high school, but never in my shuls.

Our shul rabbi never speaks publicly about tznius or yashrus. The rabbonim of Crown Heights issued a statement on tznius that was supposed to be the Chabad stance on what was permissible and what was prohibited. Most of our rabbi's talks are about learning Torah and davening with a minyon. Or it may be about a state of mind such as emunah or bitachon. Our shul, even though it is Chabad, has a wide variety of types of people from MO to those who wear shtreimlach. He has to make his message very broad.