She didn't *really* pass, but...

Petra

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:05 am

Personally, I would rather receive a "P" as opposed to "65". Then I could delude myself into thinking I could have scored in the 70's, 80's or 90's. Who knows! Either way, I passed just like the rest of them.

On the other hand, I don't really understand your math. What "2 points" are you talking about that would be petty not to give her?

(66+68+54)/3=>62.67 which I guess you are rounding to 63%?

So, you mean 2 whole percentage points you would give her to make 65%?

To achieve a passing grade assuming 65% is considered passing, including the 68 that you gave her instead of the 63 she earned, you would also have to make her quiz average a 61 (instead of a 54) which would come down to a whole bunch more raw points total that she would have needed to earn but didn't.

So am I right in thinking it's more than just 2 points?

amother

Blonde

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:35 am

imamother153 wrote:

In my opinion P would probably mean I made sure u passed. A 65 would mean that's the mark she scored. Is she honest with herself about her grades? If she's expecting her mark to be in the 60's then shed think its an honest report. And its really nice of u to be so considerate and not make her fail.

That's an important distinction because sometimes I want to make a struggling student feel better, but other times the situation is with a non-motivated student who really can do better. She didn't do so poorly as to fail her (for example, if her average is a 64 and no modification on the test), but I really want her to up her game.

relish

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:38 am

amother wrote:

I hear.

(I do give a "number" mark, but, to be completely honest, for make-up tests and such, I do only give P or F; I can't be bothered to get an exact number. Thus there is the concept that P is decent.)

If this is something that is known amongst the students, then I believe it should be a P.

For all anyone knows, she could have taken a makeup test and scored really nicely.

I don't think it's a matter of "couldn't be bothered" as in "I don't care", it seems to me that the "couldn't be bothered" is more of "I don't have time".

The question of how it affects her gpa is also one to take into consideration.

SixOfWands

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:45 am

If the other students receive number grades, then P means “You’re different. Either I think you’re stupid, so I’m giving you a pass, or I just can’t be bothered with you.” I know that’s not what you intend, but that’s what it says.

Unless everything was multiple choice, I’m not sure how teachers can precisely differentiate between an 89 and a 90. I mean, it has to be done, but how much precision is there. IOW, you’re talking about 2 points. Maybe she really deserved it.

imamother153

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:46 am

amother wrote:

Then its a case by case decision. You should speak to the student as well. Praise her for her effort and let her know that u believe in her that she can score higher. That she really has the tools for it and the strength to do so. And if she needs any further explanations beyond the class work on the subject matter you're able to assist.

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:46 am

Personally I'd prefer the "p".

65 is passing by the skin of your teeth. P doesn't show that as starkly.

But I've never been in that situation so I'm not talking from experience. I did have a teacher remove her subject from my report card when I failed her test but was a great student in her class Smile

anon because people know my story

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:47 am

The mother's side-

On the outside she doesn't seem to care but you should know that girl with the normally cool temperament cried the morning of the midterm in frustration because despite the hours of tutoring, homework and class there are some concepts she just can't grasp and she despises herself for it. It's eating her up inside and chipping away at her confidence. My heart breaks at the anxiety this is causing her. Yes she seems nonchalant in class, in front of her friends, in front of you but to me, her mother, her sounding board, she's frustrated and so nervous that it's causing her to lose focus on what you teach and instead be completely devoted to this anxiety and constant worry. You don't see that side and it's okay, that's why I'm telling you about it. Factoring in her effort into her grade and giving her a higher mark isn't rachmanus, it's a glimmer of hope that maybe she CAN do better. It's a boost of confidence. And maybe that glimmer can grow because if I can get an okay mark this time, who knows what else I can do?

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:48 am

SixOfWands wrote:

How would she know what grade her classmates received and whether it was P or a number?

mfb

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:52 am

amother wrote:

This should be sent to all teachers, especially the ones who were hundred students and don't understand what it means to study for hours and hours and still fail.

MitzadSheini

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 1:10 am

Well I haven't read every word.

Why not change your WHOLE system of marking? 50% of the mark is for the grade on the material. 50% is for perceived effort. Most people, the score would be the same. So 65% in the test means for most people 65% effort - mark equals 65. But for some kids 65% at would represent 100% effort. Others would get 100%,with only 65% effort. I would not disclose the various percentages, but rather put a comment such as "fantastic effort", or "you know the material well, but a greater effort will lead to a better result.". So a kid could get 60% in the test, 100% for effort, and end up with 80%. If everyone is in the same system and understands how it works, it's kind of fair.

Another way would be to grade each student only against their previous results. So eg you dis 10% better in this test than the last one. Like a runner who betters their own time.

Actually this is just my way of saying I believe that marks and grades do a lot of damage for very little benefit.

Anyway always remember
Effort is up to you
Result is up to haKadosh Baruch Hu.

(ducking tomatoes)

amother

Wheat

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 1:21 am

MitzadSheini wrote:

How will this prepare anyone for the real (I.e. Physical) world? How will girls who get marked in this way survive college, or a job?

MitzadSheini

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 1:25 am

I don't think the real world is a problem.

A good employer values someone who is clever AND works hard.

Anyway - very often people who do well in school don't do.so well at university and work and vice versa, so it would be no worse than the current system.

amother

Ecru

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 1:32 am

MitzadSheini wrote:

Why not change your WHOLE system of marking? 50% of the mark is for the grade on the material. 50% is for perceived effort. Most people, the score would be the same. So 65% in the test means for most people 65% effort - mark equals 65. But for some kids 65% at would represent 100% effort. Others would get 100%,with only 65% effort. I would not disclose the various percentages, but rather put a comment such as "fantastic effort", or "you know the material well, but a greater effort will lead to a better result.". So a kid could get 60% in the test, 100% for effort, and end up with 80%. If everyone is in the same system and understands how it works, it's kind

I was a student that scored well (100%) in school. I wouldn't want to see an 80% because I put in less effort then the rest of the class. It would be really discouraging.

MitzadSheini

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 2:04 am

amother wrote:

I was a student that scored well (100%) in school. I wouldn't want to see an 80% because I put in less effort then the rest of the class. It would be really discouraging.

So was I. Means nothing in the real world. A score of 100 with not much effort would be an indication to the TEACHER that SHE needed to put in more effort to stretch the student.

I'm still tweeking the system!

shirachadasha

Fri, Jan 26 2018, 6:02 am

Can we take a step back?
For kids who are struggling, can the parents, teacher and principal meet as soon as the problems become noticeable? Can this student get a modified exam that's distributed to her discreetly? Can you tell her ahead of the exam that she will pass as long as you can see she put in effort? Can you arrange for tutoring long before the exam? Does she belong in this class?
If you believe it's important for her to understand the material, brainstorm for a way to deliver it to her. If she just needs to make it to graduation, tell her that her reward will be for effort and that's what matters.
Of what benefit is it to let her spin her wheels trying to comprehend the material while only increasing anxiety?