Box of Food in Lieu of SNAP

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SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 10:31 am

Proposal to replace approximately half of monthly SNAP benefits with a box of food:

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/1......html

I doubt it will pass, but how will it affect kosher and halal recipients, who will be unable to use some of the products, including the "canned meat, poultry or fish."

33055

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 10:36 am

SixOfWands wrote:

If they give kosher food or allergy free food, there are also the same problem with other programs that give food primarily being the loss of control. Not every body likes everything equal in the Shabbos boxes now.

But the clear benefits is the money is going towards food where it is intended. Immigrants can't use all their snap to save up food for the folks back home and ship it in containers.

Raisin

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 10:41 am

SixOfWands wrote:

What about vegans and vegetarians? I assume there will be some options for allergies and food preferences.

ra_mom

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 10:52 am

SixOfWands wrote:

There are kosher WIC approved food items and I guess if this passes they will have kosher and halal packages available too.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:02 am

Great way to dump government subsidized surplus. Confused

little neshamala

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:03 am

They can make it work somewhat like wic. This is loooong overdue. The system as it is is such a waste of money.

As a former food stamp recipient, I can tell you its just ridiculous.
The way it is now you can just take your card and spend it in the fanciest groceries, paying double and receiving less. You can use it to buy all the candy for your childs birthday party, you can use it to buy cake mix and frosting and sprinkles. You can buy potato chips and cheese curls and the expensive mushrooms and fancy cut beef and steaks...all the things that as a responsible and frugal woman I rarely ever buy. Spicy mayo and sesame oil, and safron spice and pastrami roasts. Expensive ice creams that I only get my family as a treat....with food stamps you can swipe that too.
In many places you can even use it at the takeout counter.

Now before you tell me all indignantly that thats not how you use your card....thats not how I used my card either.

BUT that is how ive seen many many other people use theirs. And why not, if youre allowed to...

little neshamala

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:07 am

And once im all started up....when I finally got myself a job and no longer qualified for wic, I called them up to tell them that I probably don't qualify anymore because my income would be much higher, and they can take me off the program.

And do you know what they told me???
"Oh, you can stay on for another year anyway."
Me:"but I make enough money now. Im over the limit!"
Them: "thats ok. Everyone can stay on for another year until youve transitioned and keep your job etc"

Why in the world cant they keep people who get jobs in a "holding place"? Not getting wic, but if they lose this job can hop right back on...

The money wasting is unbelievable

seeker

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:09 am

I think it's a cute theory but a bad idea to actually do. It would also probably cost much more than SNAP to implement, and if it flops then that money and energy is even more wasted. I don't really think SNAP is very vulnerable to fraud in the way that it's used anyway, I think the most significant amount of fraud is happening at the application/qualification stage. Then of course there are the individuals who would make better personal choices than the program would. Like I said, nice idea but not good.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:12 am

little neshamala wrote:

Why in the world cant they keep people who get jobs in a "holding place"? Not getting wic, but if they lose this job can hop right back on...

Just guessing here. A lot of people who rely on food stamps are unstable, and may get a job and get fired or quit within a few months.

The cost to pay the social worker to restart all the paperwork might not be worth it, and in the time it takes to reapply, the recipient's family is going hungry.

This way, there is a safety net for those who are dependent on the breadwinner (or loser.)

little neshamala

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:18 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Right, thats why im suggesting a holding area. They would still have everything in place as active, but just paused. If the job doesnt go through, they just continue where they were before.

Right now my sister is making around 75k (one child) and receiving wic. She gives out all the food to other people. She told wic she doesnt "qualify" financially it but the coupons are still issued

Last edited by little neshamala on Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total

seeker

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:20 am

little neshamala wrote:

That's the kind of thing I mean when I say the biggest waste/fraud is at the qualification end rather than at the spending end.

But maybe it varies depending where you live because I never heard of this, when my income increased my benefits ended. Though I had a year left to use whatever was left on my account, which made sense but I only used a little to get me over the transition. I had a significant amount left because I always tried to be frugal.

isrmss91

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:25 am

I've been reading comments in the secular news. Of course, people are slamming the president, as an attack on the poor. That they will get unhealthy food (meanwhile they can buy all the junk they want with an EBT card) He is not letting anyone starve. They will be getting basic food staples. I say if they have complaints, work a little harder. Beggars can not be choosers. There is so much
rampant fraud and abuse on these programs.

OutATowner

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:27 am

I think there should be approved foods to use the card on. They tax soda-why in the world should someone be allowed to buy soda with a snap card?? When you swipe the card you literally see the tax go off the screen and then pay for the soda with government money, when the person behind you pays extra for it! (On the other side, I know this because when I had snap I bought ginger ale during pregnancy to help with nausea.)
I am very grateful to the snap program. It helped me bridge the gap and gave me time to become financially stable so that I no longer need it. I received between 2 and 300, and I wasn't wasting it on meat and cake mixes. But when my friends, who I love dearly, get enough to buy meat for shabbos and snack bags I can't afford- it annoys me. She doesnt want to work full time because it's too hard. Ok, but then how come you can easily afford packages food for mishloach Manos and I'm panicking??
Point is-there should be approved categories of food, not a free for all and not wasted money on preparation and shipment costs of the boxes.

little neshamala

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:31 am

seeker wrote:

I hear you. But I really do think its a big problem on the spending end. People use it to buy expensive items that are unnecessary, and often unhealthy. And my tax money is paying for it.

Lol. Im telling my begging 6 year old that the puddings and string cheese the woman in front of us is buying are really expensive and a treat and we cant afford to just buy whatever we like, then the woman takes put her food stamps card. Its a little ironic.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:32 am

little neshamala wrote:

Shrug.

The honest folks won't use it when they're no longer qualified. The dishonest ones won't call. This isn't going to make a big difference in the world.

seeker

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:36 am

little neshamala wrote:

I don't really have a big beef with that (no pun intended, really.) If you use your food stamps on the expensive ice cream, then you will have less money for nourishing food. You need to learn to be responsible with both your health choices and your finances, SNAP included.

Now, if people are receiving food stamps and they can afford to nourish their family well and then spend their food stamps on fancy steaks, then again that is a problem with qualification inefficiency or fraud. Because generally on SNAP, the income you need to qualify plus the amount of benefits you get, would not be enough for luxury food as well as nutrition.

In fact, I see the opposite problem - I see low income SNAP recipients buying more junk food specifically because it is cheaper, and I think this problem could be addressed by setting up programs that make wholesome food more accessible. For example, we all need snacks for our kids. For less than five dollars, some coupons, and a supermarket sale, I can buy enough nonperishable, easy-to-serve garbage to provide my medium to large family with junky snacks like potato for two weeks of school. In order to send my kids with whole-wheat flatbreads and fresh fruit, I would have to pay about that much for a day or two of snack, and I'd have to deal with some waste and more frequent shopping because fruits and vegetables don't last that long. Bear in mind that somehow the frum supermarkets in Brooklyn tend to have great sales and nice stock of produce; I don't live near one and the regular groceries have much less available and often significantly higher prices.

So if we want to provide people with more nourishment and less spending SNAP on junk, rather than offering boxes of what would probably be stripped-down white grains, canned produce, and GMO corn, we should offer an option to have part of your SNAP money replaced with a subsidized membership in some kind of produce source such as a CSA.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:40 am

little neshamala wrote:

And perhaps she was purchasing them as a special treat. Poor people are allowed that, you know. Or perhaps she has a sick child, and its the only thing she can get him to eat.

The fact is that your food stamp dollars aren't going to go very far if you purchase expensive and convenience foods.

The waste in providing pre-selected foods will be huge. Far too many people won't eat what is provided, resulting in waste, fraud (bartering of the foods) and increased hunger. Its also a way -- intended or otherwise -- of shaming the poor. You need help? You'll eat what we give you, or you'll starve.

And if anyone believes that the government will be providing the most healthful foods ....

seeker

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:47 am

BTW people comparing this to WIC should know that WIC is very flawed. It certainly has its advantages and provides a lot of nutrition support especially to populations that would otherwise slip through the cracks, and there may be what to learn from it - such as the vouchers specifically for fruits and vegetables, and the mandatory nutrition education sessions - but replacing a significant amount of SNAP with a WIC type of setup would be a bad idea.

little neshamala

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:55 am

SixOfWands wrote:

And perhaps she was purchasing them as a special treat. Poor people are allowed that, you know. Or perhaps she has a sick child, and its the only thing she can get him to eat.

Youre right.
Use my other examples of seeing people buy cake mix, sprinkles, fondant, and an entire wagon full of assorted soda bottles.

Ive seen things like this multiple times.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 13 2018, 11:59 am

seeker wrote:

But even that would be better than what's contemplated.

WIC at least gives vouchers. You can choose to buy corn flakes or oatmeal ... or just not use the voucher.

A box of food gives no choices.

Moreover, delivery would be a real issue.

About 25% of SNAP recipients are elderly or disabled. How are they going to pick up their food? And a very large percentage of the rest are the working poor, with kids. Ditto.

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