S/O Florida school shooting, do we jail shooters' parents?

FranticFrummie

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 7:36 am

Ahhh, gun control. I believe that everyone sane should be able to have a SMALL firearm for personal and home security. I also believe that NO ONE should have the right to own an assault rifle. Middle of the road, anybody?

Now, as far as changing the laws goes, I have a great idea. Lets make heroin illegal! That way, no one will be at risk of becoming addicted. Lets make cocaine and meth illegal while we're at it. Think of the children!

Oh wait... yeah, that's not working out so well.

There's only so much that legislation can do to enforce laws. Making something illegal is not always the deterrent we wish it would be. It's not a magic wand. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Deep

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 7:44 am

When compared to the top 22 developed nations in the world, Americans are 25(!) times more likely to be murdered by a gun. It is not hard to deduce what the problem is. I used to get worked up about this topic. Every time yet another massacre made headlines, I thought that the lives lost would be a wake-up call. I have given up.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 7:51 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Of course it's not a magic wand, but it's something. Isn't that better than nothing when talking about saving lives?

WhatFor

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 8:16 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

The majority of people who are pro gun control are not saying to take away everyone's right to own a weapon. The major debates right now are whether people should be required to undergo background checks to own a gun, whether people with mental illness should be permitted to buy guns, and whether people should be allowed to own assault rifles.

My personal beliefs is that only people who need guns for their profession or can show a legitimate need for owning a gun and pass background checks should own them. But the bar for the debate is much much lower than that.

SixOfWands

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 8:36 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

So let's legalize heroin. And let's be honest here. People still commit murder. Let's just legalize it. Laws aren't stopping it anyway.

I'm a radical on this.

Gun ownership? Sure. Background check. Licensed. Prove you know how to use it, and have a safe place to store it. Inspection every two years. Prove its still in your possession, in working order, and you still know how to use it. You don't do that? Someone shows up at your house, searches it, finds weapons, confiscates them. No right to own another gun for 5 years.

You want to sell it? Go ahead. But that sale better be registered, or when you don't show up with your gun, you'll be fined $50,000 for the first offense. No discretion. Not dischargable in bankruptcy.

Limit bullet sales. Limit or eliminate sales of semi-automatic weapons. Make it easier to confiscate guns from unqualified owners.

And that's a start.

It will take a decade, maybe longer, for this to help. But if we don't start, this will continue to happen.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 8:40 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Gun ownership? Sure. Background check. Licensed. Prove you know how to use it, and have a safe place to store it. Inspection every two years. Prove its still in your possession, in working order, and you still know how to use it. You don't do that? Someone shows up at your house, searches it, finds weapons, confiscates them. No right to own another gun for 5 years.

You want to sell it? Go ahead. But that sale better be registered, or when you don't show up with your gun, you'll be fined $50,000 for the first offense. No discretion. Not dischargable in bankruptcy.

Limit bullet sales. Limit or eliminate sales of semi-automatic weapons. Make it easier to confiscate guns from unqualified owners.

And that's a start.

It will take a decade, maybe longer, for this to help. But if we don't start, this will continue to happen.

I 100% agree with all of this. No question.

Apparently, almost everyone knew that the shooter was unstable, and that it was only a matter of "when", not "if". http://www.bbc.com/news/world-.....71710 He was even on the FBI's radar.

What more could have been done? Someone seems to have dropped the ball somewhere, but who and when?

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 8:45 am

WhatFor wrote:

Re the bolded. I honestly don't understand why not. What does anyone need a gun for? No one here in England is suffering because they can't obtain weapons.

WhatFor

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 9:14 am

amother wrote:

Re the bolded. I honestly don't understand why not. What does anyone need a gun for? No one here in England is suffering because they can't obtain weapons.

Because we're trying to make things less terrible here and unfortunately we're never going to get to less deaths if we make that our platform.

But fwiw, I generally agree with you.

greenfire

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 9:41 am

think how the coach could have shot at the crazed shooter & taken him down instead of getting his own self shot to protect the students

those who are going to go on any killing rampage or drug rampage can & will find the heroin & the gun & the people to shoot - with excuses of it's my teacher's fault, the school, the kids, the parents ...

you need a gun so that people can protect themselves !!!

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 9:54 am

greenfire wrote:

So how do you explain the fact that this problem is basically unheard of in western countries that have tight gun control?

SixOfWands

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:03 am

greenfire wrote:

So, let's not try to stop bad people from getting guns. We'll just count on some good guy to stop him.

I mean, that happened in Texas. Unless you were one of the 26 people murdered first. Too bad for you then, I guess.

Never mind that police say that armed "good guys" usually cause more problems than good.

The equation is simple. More guns. more death.

WhatFor

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:08 am

Fox wrote:

Well, we can ban whatever we like. Now that the Mexican cartels are in the gun and ammo manufacturing business, it won't matter.

I'm glad you raised this. We have a major problem in the US with US kids (predominantly white male) shooting up fellow classmates in school, so it's way more comforting when someone switches the topic to talk about Mexican cartels, which has absolutely nothing to do with a US born kid who walked into a store and legally bought a gun.

Fox

Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:37 pm

WhatFor wrote:

Why so nasty, racist, and sexist? What difference does the race or gender of the shooter make?

In fact, we actually don't have a huge problem with "US kids (predominantly white male) shooting up fellow classmates in school." We have a huge problem with black males shooting other black males, primarily with handguns.

The majority of school shootings point to deficiencies in the mental health care system and the degree to which we rely on law enforcement to handle the mentally ill.

It is not changing the subject to point out that simply banning all manufacture and sale of firearms in the U.S. would not necessarily reduce gun crime as criminal enterprises become more sophisticated at producing and distributing weapons.