I am honestly bothered by this

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim

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amother

Amethyst

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:09 am

Imasinger I'm ffb and teach my children the same thing. This isn't a purim question more a chinuch problem. I see too often how parents let emotions get to them or live vicariously through their children forgetting the need to instill values etc

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:11 am

I don't know if this will be a light at the end of the tunnel thought for anyone but I didn't have to drive kids around to friends, and teachers, and squeeze in a few of my own in between. The kids did it themselves and did some for me too.
I had time to bring mm to a friend who's a shut in and have a visit. In the middle of the afternoon I delivered mm to a few friends who live on one block and visited with each for a few minutes and it was really nice. I saw other grownups. And yes, got some nice mm back, they might not have made it out to me because of the weather. The visits really perked me up.
Also, I sent a fruit basket to an older not observant cousin I've connected with via email. I should have done this years ago but did it this year because I made the mistake of getting into a political conversation with her and wanted to bury the hatchet and it was really well-received. I'm so glad I'm cementing this connection.

cozyblanket

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:20 am

Trick or treaters just show up and ask. They don't come with a gift if their own and hand it to you.

Trick or treaters don't care if they know you or if they bring joy to you.

Our children experience the joy of giving and a truly happy holiday. And, they are also totally normal children who hope to get something yummy back. Lets not expect them to be malachim. I don't think everything on Purim is perfect, for sure, but lets not compare it to Halloween.

Also, this is why I am so glad my community has several learning programs night and day... There is much more to Purim than just MM. And, of course, there is megillah!

Imasinger, I hope you are just expressing some thoughts and you still had a nice Purim. I would be so sad if you didn't.

Maya

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:24 am

simba wrote:

Spewing ... against judiasm again?

I want to be respectful and ask you what about a day spent with family and friends, mitzvos of hearing the megila where Hashem made a Neis and saved the yidden from annhilation, a day where we give tzedaka to everyone who asks, a day of joy and treats. A Seuda with extended family and loads of visitors. A day of happiness and music and delicious kids dressed as Torah's, Mordechai and police.. how is that likened to a pagan holiday remembering the dead?

Forget it, you don't have to answer me.

Spewing? When the OP and all posters agreeing with her say it, it's fine, but I'm the one spewing?

I'm sorry that something in my post set off such a strong reaction in you. Perhaps because deep down you know it's the truth?

I happened to have had a wonderfully fun and laid back Purim. But I too am bothered by what the OP is describing, as well as the entire focus being on costumes and themes, and drinking.

Last edited by Maya on Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Blue

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:29 am

Maya wrote:

Whom are we kidding? Of course Purim is our Halloween. Only with more pressure and less fun.

Speak for yourself.

How much Matonos L'evyonim is given out on Halloween in your circles?

PinkFridge

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:30 am

Maya wrote:

I will say, while I thought the reply (don't remember who) was being unnecessarily hard on you, I agreed with what she wrote about what Purim can be.
So what do you do, or what will you do, reflecting on yesterday, to make Purim more authentic and meaningful for your family?

Maya

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:33 am

amother wrote:

Speak for yourself.

How much Matonos L'evyonim is given out on Halloween in your circles?

In the community where I spend Purim, this "matonos levyonim"goes along with underage drinking in boys as young as 13, dangerous road practices, and vile and inconsiderate behaviors. There's nothing holy or elevated about that.

Maya

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:35 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Purim is meaningful to me and my family because I don't engage in the materialism of it. Although that's getting harder and harder as the kids grow older.

amother

Blue

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:36 am

Maya wrote:

Like I said. Speak for your self

I agree that there is nothing holy or elevated in your Purim

Maya

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:39 am

amother wrote:

Like I said. Speak for your self

I agree that there is nothing holy or elevated in your Purim

Of all the costumes being shown off on Instagram, not a single one is from my community. So don't tell me it only happens by me.
My Purim was wonderful, thanks for asking. Tell me about yours, and how it was holy and elevated.

amother

Blue

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:43 am

Maya wrote:

Of all the costumes being shown off on Instagram, not a single one is from my community. So don't tell me it only happens by me.

I'll agree with you on that too.

Those who have a elevated Purim generally aren't busy with putting their (children's) costumes on the Instagram sites you follow.

simba

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:46 am

Maya wrote:

You wrote "Purim is our Halloween". You welcomed yourself and all Jews there. No, it is not our Halloween.
Because many people (that you distances yourself from) focus on the wrong part it's a good reason to equate it to the likes of Avoda Zora?
Thank God you are not the ultimate judge or we would all be in poor shape. Or at least we would have good company in hell.

amother

Pink

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:50 am

amother wrote:

This is true.

dancingqueen

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 11:08 am

Maya wrote:

Whom are we kidding? Of course Purim is our Halloween. Only with more pressure and less fun.

And minus all the gory/death themes.

Imasinger, I’m sorry you feel disillusioned. Unfortunately I’ve seen in my family that BTs can feel that way when they realize that many frum people are the same as secular ppl just with more rules and rituals and are sometimes more judgmental.

I will say that I always teach my kids to give back a shalch manos if they get, even if we have to throw one together. To me that’s basic manners.

crust

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 11:40 am

imasinger wrote:

Growing up not frum, it was a great source of pride to me during and following the BT process that Purim is not Halloween.

Halloween was all about dressing up, knocking on people's doors, and getting treats.

I proudly taught my kids that we as Jews dress up and GIVE treats to others. Sure it's nice when they give back to us, but that's not the real point of the exercise.

I spend time on theme and poem every year because I hope it brings a smile to people.

And yet, every year, I see threads where people are worried/upset for themselves and their children that they didn't get enough MM on Purim.

Did I teach my children wrong? Is it really like Halloween after all?

I might not be the best fit to answer your question because I never had to explain the difference between Purim and Holloween to my children but to me, to my children and to the people I'm surrounded with, the day of Purim is about the four Mitzvas Hayom. A far cry from Holloween.

The structure of the day- a schachris then the megilah then the matonas l'evyonim the sueda the Mishloach munis. A mincha on Purim! Everything has purpose and meaning in this special day of kol haposhet yad.

Of course it depends in ones hashkafos but to us its a mini Yom Kippur and we try to chap arein as much tfillas as possible.

Other than the sweets, (which I hate and so does everyone btw. A different discussion how I approach that.) I don't find a commonality between Purim and Holloween.

Even our drinking is different. Again, I might be in a blessed environment but for the most part I enjoy watching them and getting thier brachos and comments.

I'm not saying there aren't uncontrolled shikirim especially at the end of the day. But again, on a personal level between me and my kids, they see what they see year round just in a funny way. The uncles that are full of tochen spit tochen and those who are empty.... well. It teaches them something important.

That the yontif brings along its pressures? True. But the pressures aren't any different in essence than the pressures of any other jewish yom tovs.

That people are lonely? All Yomim Tovim are reminders and triggers of our feelings all year round. Still doesnt transform the purim into a Halloween c"v.

That people don't get anything and are upset about it? Who am I to judje thier frustration?

I am blessed to live in a place where just being here during the day of Purim is a pleasure. The day isn't big enough to go to all the people we want to visit. Wrapped up delicacies are all over going back and forth and I hope there's no soul left out.

Ay, the materialism? And which yom tov isn't full of that?! Not that its ever ok but it's not something that starts or ends on Purim. It's a general issue year round.

Maya

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 11:43 am

crust wrote:

Other than the sweets, (which I hate and so does everyone btw. A different discussion how I approach that.) I don't find a commonality between Purim and Holloween.
.

How could you say that? At the very least, both involve dressing up in costumes and handing out candy/food. That's a minimum of two commonalities.

PinkFridge

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 11:46 am

Maya wrote:

Do you mean people collecting obnoxiously, or children being irresponsible?
I have a not religious friend whose son emptied his charity box and the rest of the family topped it off, to pass on to a local gabbai tzedakah of Matan B'seter (our community name) who gives out matanos l'evyonim.
I know someone else who also runs local tzedakah and who dispenses money like water on Purim. Big checks from people with even bigger hearts.
Surely you know these kinds of people too. As with the story of Simon Weisenthal and Rav Eliezer Silver, z"l, focus on the other side of the ball.

PinkFridge

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 11:50 am

Maya wrote:

Purim is meaningful to me and my family because I don't engage in the materialism of it. Although that's getting harder and harder as the kids grow older.

We have to engage in some materialism, by elevating food and money for a mitzvah. I just heard a shiur where the speaker explained that Haman wanted to destroy us on all levels - our physical body, our life source, our souls, our possessions ("ushlalam lavoz" is the end of the pasuk in the Megillah that addresses this). The mitzvos of Purim elevate us on all levels.
Ideally, the mitzvos of Purim are to unite us, to counter Haman's accusation of our being an "am mefuzar u'mefurad." When we reaccepted the Torah - kimu v'kiblu - we reattained the madraiga of '"vayichan shom Yisrael" at the original kabalas haTorah.

simba

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 11:52 am

PinkFridge wrote:

, focus on the other side of the ball.

She doesn't want to. She found two similarities. Is ignoring the deeper meaning behind each of them and why they are done. Ignoring the rest of the picture. The beauty, the meaning, the history, the chinuch opportunities, the Chesed.

She chose 2 focus on externalities and the material aspects... funny how she claims to have left a community because they do just that.

PinkFridge

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 11:53 am

Maya wrote:

How could you say that? At the very least, both involve dressing up in costumes and handing out candy/food. That's a minimum of two commonalities.

It's true we hand out food. But it's either because we go to someone's house to give it - the reverse of Halloween - or we are reciprocating because someone came to our house to give it, and ditto.

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