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Dental conspiracy?
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:15 pm
I have been taking my children to a popular medical and dental center in my neighborhood for dental care for over a decade now. I was pleased with the service and care and with the various dentists who have treated my children and myself. We are assigned to particular dentists, but over the years, several have left the practice and I've basically been happy with all of them. A couple of years ago, I met a woman who told me that she used to use that dental center too, but had heard that they tend to "find" many cavities. She switched, and found that her children had fewer cavities by the new dentist. Today I was talking to someone else, and she told me a similar story with other offices. She has been using a particular old-fashioned style dentist for years and is thrilled with the service and rarely needed treatment. Her daughter decided to try another dentist in the neighborhood who all her friends were having about, and was shocked to hear that she needed eight(!!!) fillings, after never having a cavity in her life. She decided to take the x-rays to her mother's dentist and that dentist said that she didn't have any!

I find this very strange. Either it's a cavity, or it isn't, wouldn't you say? Are these dentists trying to find as many cavities as possible so that they can bill insurance for more fillings (or even root canals)? Some of my children needed too many fillings to count, unfortunately. I'd love to hear people's thoughts, experiences, suggestions, etc.

I also read somewhere on some sort of dental method where minor cavities can correct themselves. Anyone have any info?

Amother because this was via real-life conversation.
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HappyGoLucky1




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:20 pm
Yes I've heard this too. I don't know how true it is but I have paranoia when it comes to dentists. Especially now that certain insurance companies are paying less per cavity.
Dentists scare me.
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amother




Aubergine


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:20 pm
I remember hearing something like this on a certain dentist growing up. never verified as we were not his patient.
vitamin k supposedly supposed to help. never tried. ask health food store about it.
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das




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:22 pm
I once visited a dentist who said I had three cavities. I went for a second opinion and was told I had...zero. A decade and many dentist visits later they never reappeared!
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amother




Aqua


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:25 pm
I think there are definitely different ways to interpret cavities, maybe depending on the skill/experience of the dentist? In other words, being able to accurately determine when something minor will develop into a full blown cavity vs knowing when it will probably not progress further and doesn't require treatment.

I had an experience myself with two different dentists in the same practice. Saw them both in the same week, and one found 7!!!! more cavities than the other one. Guess whose advice I followed? LOL
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octopus




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:36 pm
There are all different kinds of dentists. Some are unscrupulous and some are just not good. There are some dentists that if they see a speck on a tooth they will call it a cavity and they will fill it when it may likely just be a stain.
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amother




Taupe


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:49 pm
I was told dentistry is more an art than a science.

And yes, there is a way to remineralize teeth. Eating healthy foods, bone broth and raw milk were part of it, IIRC, and possibly supplements.
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gilamom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:50 pm
Definitely found this to be true, Dr. L said one child has numerous cavities and another child needs a few teeth pulled. Went to a different dentist who said there's two cavities and the other child doesn't need to have teeth pulled. This was years ago and b'h they're both fine with healthy teeth, heard many many horror stories about Dr. L since then who has since upgraded to a much fancier/bigger practice. Wish there was a way to report him.
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amother




Tan


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:55 pm
Sadly I had this experience as well. Was told I had 8 cavities. Second dentist told me zero. They never materialized. I have zero faith in dendists for this reason. But I do still go to the second dentist, like 21 years later.
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ra_mom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 10:58 pm
The more skilled the dentist, the more he is able to know when to watch any issues that come up, and when to take care of them asap with fillings and dental work.
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amother




Ruby


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 11:01 pm
Yes. My own dentist told me that lots of dentistry is a scam. My DH was told he needed an emergency root canal 10 yrs ago by a dentist who found multiple root canals in my teeth. My DH never treated it and our dentist told him that his teeth are perfect.
Lots of dentists are just opening your teeth and filling them to make money. You need to go to someone trustworthy with a good track record. I've definitely noticed that dentists that accept Medicaid are even more guilty of this.
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keym




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 11:04 pm
I feel it takes a skilled and confident dentist who is willing to "watch" minor cavities in baby tooth to see how they will develop. My dd has had a small size cavity in her baby molar for 2 years. We watch and come back to check, observe for pain and measure the roots of the tooth to determine how much longer til it falls out.
Of course it would have been easier for the dentist to fill it but why subject a child to that for no reason.
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Notsobusy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 11:05 pm
I had this with one of my kids. We went to a dental clinic for the first time trying to save money, and two of the dentists were arguing about how many cavities he had. One said 12 and the other said 8! I couldn't believe he had that many cavities and no pain, and I was very suspicious that there was such a big discrepancy between what the two dentists thought. I switched dentists and it turned out he only had two cavities!

Like one of the other posters wrote, this was a place that accepts medicaid.
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amother




Aqua


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 11:13 pm
I want to add that my kids see a wonderful dentist whose practice is almost exclusively Medicaid patients. I genuinely trust her, and in several years she's only filled one cavity between my two kids, and is keeping an eye on a second cavity. I don't necessarily believe that Medicaid dentists are more likely to be overzealous. My only bad experience was with a private dentist, though I've had good experiences with private dentists too.
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studying_torah




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Mar 13 2018, 11:33 pm
So true it's scary. Happened to dh and me.
I had my wisdom teeth pulled needlessly and I've been suffering ever since.

Dh never had a cavity until 4 years ago when the only one he had got infected, needed root canal done.
He later went for a screening by a diff dentist (we had since moved) and suddenly almost every tooth has a cavity to be filled. Dh said no way, went elsewhere and needed 2 fillings.
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Wed, Mar 14 2018, 12:20 am
Wow! Really shocking! I would just like to clarify that I don't think they are unscrupulous, because as I said, it was quite a few dentists at a clinic-style place, and I can't imagine that the dental coordinator would tell all her (or his) employees, "ok, we're out to scam all our patients, so please try to find as many cavities as possible," (which is why it took me this long to notice), but rather, as others pointed out, they are possibly not so skilled at the art.
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Wed, Mar 14 2018, 5:44 am
I had exactly the same thing. I asked my dentist how come he doesn't think it needs filling and the other dentist thinks it's so important? He explained that those are not real holes but little "wells" in the teeth that if not taken care of, will become holes. But they aren't yet. And they can stay like this for 10 years. I didn't fix mine. It's been 6 years since and it didn't get worse. It also doesn't hurt at all cuz they aren't real cavities. They can become. Some dentists like to take the precaution, so they say it has to b fixes

Last edited by amother on Thu, Nov 08 2018, 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Mar 14 2018, 9:17 am
I have no idea whether your dental practice is become over zealous or not. It is not uncommon for large dental clinics to be aggressive in all kinds of treatments because the dentists are salaried and are expected to bring in money.

Now obviously private dentists also make money from treatments but in my personal experience a well recommended dentist assumes that he or she will build a practice and that a patient will be there for life and so I have much more trust in his or her recommendations.

I would be concerned frankly if my children had multiple cavities. In today's environment most children I know have never had a cavity. That is because with proper oral hygiene plus coating the teeth which is a recommended practice, it's a completely different ball game than it was when I was growing up when cavities were expected - especially if water wasn't fluoridated. So I would want to know WHY my children actually had a cavity - let alone multiple cavities because that just shouldn't be happening.

The problem with childhood cavities - even ones that are filled - is that they are inevitably not as good as teeth without cavities. The filling isn't as strong as the natural tooth - the cavity will get bigger - it will need root canal - it will need a crown - it will need an implant. So it is critical for good teeth in later life for one NOT to have even treated cavities as a child. Concentrate on prevention.
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Orchid




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Mar 14 2018, 9:36 am
amother wrote:
Wow! Really shocking! I would just like to clarify that I don't think they are unscrupulous, because as I said, it was quite a few dentists at a clinic-style place, and I can't imagine that the dental coordinator would tell all her (or his) employees, "ok, we're out to scam all our patients, so please try to find as many cavities as possible," (which is why it took me this long to notice), but rather, as others pointed out, they are possibly not so skilled at the art.


Low cost clinics bill the heck out of Medicaid, so while I don't think they're consciously trying to scam patients with no cavities, they are indeed affected by the lure of the almighty dollar.

True story: a relative of mine worked in such a clinic out of dental school and had QUOTAS. I asked him point blank: If you were on the fence with a patient over whether or not he needed procedure XYZ and you were nearing the end of the month not having met your quota for that procedure, can you swear on a sefer torah that your quota would not weigh in on your recommendation for this patient? Of course he couldn't. And even if he could, there would be subconscious considerations.

Think it's just dentistry?
Another true story: a friend of mine is an ob/gyn nurse and witnessed procedures done on women to satisfy the quota need of the attending resident. For example, in one case, they performed a forceps birth where it was completely not indicated. And the patients have no idea, of course. They gush over how amazing their doctor was instead....

The bottom line is everyone - from the greatest tzaddik to the lowest gangster - is affected by the lure of money. That is why the Torah warns us against bribery, which even extends to a respected dayan taking a single pruta from a would-be litigant. How much more so when people are not tzaddikim, and can justify the diagnosis to themselves? Many times more.

This is all basic to me...not sure why you're so shocked.
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amother




Wine


Post  Wed, Mar 14 2018, 9:59 am
Orchid wrote:
Low cost clinics bill the heck out of Medicaid, so while I don't think they're consciously trying to scam patients with no cavities, they are indeed affected by the lure of the almighty dollar.

True story: a relative of mine worked in such a clinic out of dental school and had QUOTAS. I asked him point blank: If you were on the fence with a patient over whether or not he needed procedure XYZ and you were nearing the end of the month not having met your quota for that procedure, can you swear on a sefer torah that your quota would not weigh in on your recommendation for this patient? Of course he couldn't. And even if he could, there would be subconscious considerations.

Think it's just dentistry?
Another true story: a friend of mine is an ob/gyn nurse and witnessed procedures done on women to satisfy the quota need of the attending resident. For example, in one case, they performed a forceps birth where it was completely not indicated. And the patients have no idea, of course. They gush over how amazing their doctor was instead....

The bottom line is everyone - from the greatest tzaddik to the lowest gangster - is affected by the lure of money. That is why the Torah warns us against bribery, which even extends to a respected dayan taking a single pruta from a would-be litigant. How much more so when people are not tzaddikim, and can justify the diagnosis to themselves? Many times more.

This is all basic to me...not sure why you're so shocked.


Just no. That would go against the Hippocratic oath. But you have an agenda here I think.
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