Be honest - receiving kallah gifts and other gifts

watergirl

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 7:49 am

This is a spin off the thread from the OP who got a cheap watch.

Be honest please. When given a gift by someone who you know couldn't afford it - how does it make you feel? Lets say they went into debt, charged it on their credit card with the massive bill, had to go door to door collecting, still struggle to pay tuition... etc.

Do you feel touched that they sacrificed for you? Do you feel bad?

I’m so baffled by this phenomenon of every kallah getting the same gifts dispite financial ability.

happyone

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:00 am

I agree. The system stinks. Why do they need five pieces if jewelery in such a short time? However, if it's done in your circles most make an effort so their kallah doesn't feel different .
What upsets me, is when these young girls complain about their gifts that in laws go into debt for.

Putting kallahs aside, When I receive a gift from someone who cannot afford it, I feel awful . Im not a great receiver of gifts in general. To me, card means a lot more .

thunderstorm

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:03 am

I think what's worse is that the kallah and her friends compare and discuss what they receive. They focus so much on it during the engagement that important issues such as marriage , shalom bayis etc. are completely ignored. I've noticed it even more in specific circles. The excitement is all about the gifts and THINGS as opposed to excitement for the chassan itself.

pause

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:06 am

thunderstorm wrote:

In the circles you're talking about, they don't know the chassan himself! The excitement is about reaching this stage in life - and all that comes along with it, such as gifts, shopping, etc. - rather than about marrying a specific, mostly still unknown, person.

watergirl

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:09 am

pause wrote:

I’ve heard this sentiment a lot also. That this builds momentum needed to make it to the chuppah.

We know that the root of ahava is hav - to give. And we know that giving gifts brings feelings of love. So there’s a lot to say for that.

But the pressure many face! The hardship...

asmileaday

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:15 am

thunderstorm wrote:

This.
In my circles I feel that because there is really no connection to the chosson, no talking, no interacting, it becomes all about the gifts and the concept that you're a kallah.

I think the gift giving situation is terrible. (I didn't read the thread you're referring to.)

And besides, getting such expensive jewelry at such a young age totally cheapens it. Why does an 18 year old need a few real diamond pieces that she won't even like in a few years from now?

I can never imagine myself spending that much on a bracelet or earrings now, why on earth would my 18 year old self need that?

Believe me my Amazon diamond earrings that I wear today are a lot sparklier and nicer than my kallah earrings that are tucked away in a drawer and never looked at because they're so not my type anymore.

#EndthisMadness

asmileaday

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:16 am

pause wrote:

And isn't that sad?

asmileaday

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:18 am

watergirl wrote:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with giving gifts. By all means, gift away.
But why does it need to be a $2k bracelet when a $150 one looks just as nice!

asmileaday

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:20 am

Sorry this is one of my pet peeves.
So many families are struggling to cover the basics yet when their child gets engaged they feel pressured to buy many pieces of jewelry that could've easily covered their grocery bill for a few months.
And don't get me started on the extravagant furniture purchases that the couple doesn't even need or have space for in their tiny Brooklyn apartment!

thunderstorm

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:21 am

watergirl wrote:

I agree with you. Honestly , I wouldn't even know if my diamond ring is cz or not. But I was a recipient of tzedaka. The difference for me was that I wasn't aware of it at that time and I didn't expect ANYTHING.
My wedding gown I got from a gemach and I paid $50 for the loan.
I told my mother we don't need centerpieces on the tables since that wouldn't make my Simcha happier. I wanted lively dancing and that's what I had.
I grew up as a recipient of tzedaka. Every item I owned was given to me (besides things I bought for myself with my own money). When I got engaged there were two very close family friends who made ALL the arrangements and part of that was fundraising (I just thought it all came straight from their own pocket. I didn't realize I was being shnorred for, until I found out after my wedding) I was married off with literally EVERYTHING. I am extremely grateful to these people. But they picked and did the choosing. I never said "I want this, I need this". One woman bought me four years worth of detergents, soaps, shampoos etc. I was beyond thankful for it all. I have been able to start my life really with the right foot forward and it has been a blessing. But if it meant that all I received was a ring, I would've been thrilled. I got way more than I dreamed of and I'm forever thankful to all these people. May Hashem reward them all.

pause

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 8:30 am

watergirl wrote:

To be clear, I'm not advocating extravagant gifts. I actually agree with asmileaday that it's a bit sad how it's not about the relationship with this specific person; rather the engagement is about the state of being engaged and happens to be somewhere there is a chassan waiting for you.

But that wasn't my point. I was factually responding to thunderstorm about why the excitement is for THINGS and not the person. The answer is because that's the only available option!

crust

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 9:05 am

pause wrote:

Ouch.
The reality is that the mother of the chosson cannot be the one to stop it.

It has to come mitzad hakallah. And do we really expect our 18 year old kallahs to be able to handle being different than all thier friends? Suddenly we raise the bar?

lavenderchimes

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 9:18 am

I'm not from around these parts... lol. I think it's a very nice idea to give gifts before the chuppah. But the price point bar is set WAY too high. It's totally insane and totally unecessary. In the regular world, jewelry is given in proportion to the groom and his families income. Rich people give diamonds. Regular people stay within their means. Everyone knows that there are rich people, middle class people, and poor people. What's the point of pretending that you are rich just to go into terrible debt?

watergirl

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 9:23 am

crust wrote:

It really needs to be stopped by the heads of the kehilla in general. Although it’ll be ignored, like the other wedding takanos.

amother

Plum

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 9:30 am

As a mother of a boy, b"H we got a great package deal for rings, bracelet, and necklace.
We bought machzorim. We waited till the Artscroll sets went on sale. Not leather. She knew what she wanted - the interlinear which as the MIL I appreciated so much. It showed that she really thought about her davening.
And getting my DIL has been a much greater gift than anything we've given her.

thunderstorm

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 9:32 am

watergirl wrote:

It really needs to be stopped by the heads of the kehilla in general. Although it’ll be ignored, like the other wedding takanos.

And maybe in highschool it should be part of lessons and encouragement for the girls . If it starts with an entire class to take upon themselves a new takanah, they will all be on the same page and won't be comparing. Once one class does it the others will follow. There just needs to be encouragement and praise for doing it.

amother

Ruby

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 9:35 am

There are kehilos where its stopped already.
I know someone in israel that if they want to get a money loan for a wedding then they have to follow very specific rules.
I think these are part of them cz instead of diamond for ring and bracelet, watch can be up to a certain amount of $ around $2-300....
Also the wedding has to be made only in takanah hall.
Most people in that kehilla use these loans so all kallahs are getting the same.

amother

Emerald

Wed, Mar 28 2018, 9:49 am

I think in litvish circles, it’s an engagement ring, bracelet (vort), and necklace (yichud room). It possibly all costs under 5k if someone isn’t looking to spend money. While it’s a lot of money, it’s not necessarily an absurd amount. Is it different in chasidish circles?