Moving to cleveland without a plan

amother

Cobalt

Mon, Apr 16 2018, 10:43 pm

Whenever I complain about how expensive housing is in the tri state area people always respond that I should look into cleveland because housing is very cheap and tuition is free. Everyone here seems to know someone thrat picked up and moved to cleveland

I have a few questions for clevelaners. First of all is tuition really free. If say dh job let him work remotely and he brings in 70k and I would stop working would tuition really and truly be free or is it just for very low income. Second question is does the community like or resent the people that move there without a plan. I can only imagine that those people are using the communities tzedaka and are not even part of community yet. Lastly, how common is it really for people to move when neither spouse has a job lined up.

I would never move without a job but I am constantly hearing about cleveland and am just curious.

amother

Denim

Mon, Apr 16 2018, 11:00 pm

amother wrote:

Not in Cleveland, but what I heard
1. There are 2 types of reduced tuition, one is income dependent and one depends exactly where you live regardless of income.
2. Yes . Clevelanders have told us straight up not to show up without a job and expect the community to cover for us until we find. The job market there is tight, make sure u have something first

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 1:45 am

There are two vouchers. One is income based and you don’t pay the difference. Meaning If tuition is 10k and voucher is $5400 you don’t have to pay the rest. This voucher is for anyone in Ohio. The other voucher is based on failing school district. If you live in a neighborhood and the assigned public school is considered failing by state standards then you get a voucher to go to a private school. This $5400 voucher goes towards Tuition. If you fall under the financial income bracket you can just pay that. However if you are above the income you may have to pay the rest.

If any of your children need special ed services- there is another scholarship that can help pay for those services. However you can’t have both. So tuition may be free but special ed services and therapies are not.

It’s hard to have people here with no plan. The hardworking clevelanders do resent the people coming without a plan and using up funds and resources from tzedaka establishments.

I’m not from Cleveland originally (reinstate area) and I love it here. The community is so warm and caring. You can shine and be known- unlike in big cities such as Brooklyn or Lakewood.

There are 4 neighborhoods.
1)Cleveland heights
2)University heights
3)Beachwood
4)Wickliffe

1 is about 10 min drive to 2 & 3

2&3 right near each other.

#4 about 25 min drive from #1 it’s where the telz Yeshiva is located.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 4:49 am

If you move here with husband working that's not considered not having a plan. What is resented are the people moving here, neither spouse with a job, amd relying on the community to help them. That is not ok.
Other posters have mentioned that the job market is tight. It most definitely is. Which is why it is integral to have a job lined up before you move.
And tuition is most definitely not free. This is a big pet peeve of mine. There are vouchers available but they are income based. If you make a decent or even semi decent salary you will have to pay the remainder.

amother

Oak

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 7:19 am

As someone who just moved to Cleveland, we bought a house for $100,000. I work in education and there is a big need for teachers with degrees although the salary is still a teaching salary. With a lowish income tuition is free. There are still high property taxes, high cost of food and utilities so you can not come with nothing but you can live on a lot less than new York no question. The community is very friendly and welcoming so far

amother

Tan

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 9:47 am

marina wrote:

plse don’t move for the vouchers. This is negatively affecting the public school system which loses money for each voucher child. This breeds resentment and distrust when people move here to syphon funds from the system

This wouldn't bother me. Well resentment might, but I don't think it's warraned. I'm equally entitled to those funds as are the public school children. With each family that moves from out of state, there is a new family paying State income taxes. Part of which should go towards the tuition vochur/public school funding.

OP - you might also want to consider researching Cincinnati.

naturalmom5

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:02 am

marina wrote:

This doesn't make sense. If I buy a house and PAY property taxes and don't use the PS, why aren't I entitled to a voucher.

If I take a client to a non-Kosher restaurant and buy a drink a wrapped pastry with a hechsher , should all the other customers resent I didn't buy a steak

amother

Lilac

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:13 am

marina wrote:

I don't like your attitude. Many hardworking people can afford to live a simple lifestyle, but can not afford yeshiva tuition elsewhere, even with breaks. Why shouldn't they move to a place where they can get vouchers?

amother

Lilac

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:17 am

amother wrote:

You still pay about $5k tuition per child after the voucher. If you're coming Brooklyn or Lakewood that's not a discount.

According to what I understand from http://www.geshercleveland.com/, if a person has for ex 5 kids and earns under around 73,000, they do not have to pay anymore after the voucher.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:32 am

Kiwi13 wrote:

Voucher system is fairly new and came at the expense of a failing public school system. Not applicable to Beachwood (which has excellent public schools).

Do NOT move without a financial plan!!! The job market is tight and fiercely competitive.

I'm not saying to move without a plan, but why shouldn't vouchers be a big factor in the equation? If a family earning under $73,000 with 5 kids has to pay $25,000 tuition elsewhere, here they can minus the tuition expense from their equation of expenses. They still need to find jobs to earn around the $70,000 range, but don't have to earn as much to support a simple lifestyle if don't need to factor in tuition.

amother

Peach

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:39 am

One other important factor to consider is health insurance, as well as other government programs that you may qualify for in the tri-state area. We live in Cleveland and are able to get health insurance through my husband's work. If we still lived in Lakewood then we would be eligible to have a very inexpensive insurance through Medicaid. We are not eligible for any benefits through medicaid here. Because the cost of living is so low, salaries are lower and in order to be eligible for many benefits you have to be making less money.

For example for a family of six:

Ohio: Maximum income level per yr to be eligible for medicaid is: $43,331 (equals $3,610.92 per month)

NJ: You can earn up to $5624 per month and not pay any premiums, or up to $9982 and pay $144.50 per month in premiums.

For those of you who have never had to buy insurance out of pocket, it is very expensive if you are not getting it through an employer. In the past we've had to pay over $1500 a month for a family, although I'm not sure what the rates are now. Plus high co-pays, deductible etc.

*Important note, it is probably impossible for a family of 6 to live in Cleveland on a Salary of $44,000 dollars... as you would be making too much for benefits and too little to support yourselves.

marina

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:41 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

The voucher system was meant for families who have no choice but to live in an area with a failing schools. Even though the school district loses some money per pupil with every voucher recipient, this was considered an acceptable way to do right by those families who would be assigned to a failing school.

But if families are deliberately moving in from out of state just to get those vouchers, they are moving to suck money out of the system that was never meant for them in the first place. Then, of course, those families never vote for levies to improve the school system because if the system improves, these families stand to lose their vouchers because you don't get vouchers unless the school is failing. So the school district loses money and has no way to repair itself and the other families who actually send to the schools resent orthodox Jews. It is creating a terrible situation.

Please do not move just for the vouchers, that is wrong and you will just add to the breeding resentment against frum people.

In your analogy, it would be like the non kosher restaurant is forced by law to give people who would otherwise eat lunch there a kosher lunch if they request it, even though they lose 5$ on every order, and then all of Brooklyn hears about this and comes for lunch every day and then the restaurant loses so much money that it closes and everyone hates Jews.

Please do not move for vouchers.

amother

Peach

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:44 am

amother wrote:

Tuition is around $10,000. If you live in University Heights or Beachwood you are eligible for vouchers for $4,500 per kid, starting in Kindergarten (Pre-1a or Primary in the tristate area). So you would still owe the schools around 22,000.... One other important factor, in lakewood kids can go to playgroup until 2pm for $220 a month until 4 year olds. Here all 4 year olds and most 3 year olds are in school. There are not vouchers for them (unless you work certain amount of hours and are income eligible. It's a different type of voucher.) and tuition is $6000 a year until 1:50pm...

Kiwi13

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:44 am

amother wrote:

I understand the appeal of the vouchers, and yes I think it's a consideration. It does breed resentment in the greater CH/UH community (not the Jewish community) and doesn't make the frum community look good, but that notwithstanding you do need to do what is best for your family first and foremost.

That said, the voucher system is new. Meaning, it is not so established and it isn't clear how long it will work the way it does now. Last I heard (and this might have changed) there was still an effort going on to improve the public school system and end the vouchers (which were originally proposed as a temporary option) - current Clevelanders correct me if I'm wrong? Moving for vouchers is risky in that respect because you just can't know if it'll be reliable indefinitely. And even if they continue to exist, will they be given out the same way?

In my opinion, yes vouchers are a big consideration. But so are property taxes (quite high in CH/UH, lower in Beachwood), limited career opportunity (if you go without a job), and all of the overall considerations you should have when you move anywhere.

amother

Peach

Tue, Apr 17 2018, 10:46 am

marina wrote:

I disagree. Because so many people are moving here the value of homes has gone up tremendously over the last few years. So of course, native Clevelanders will be upset when its time to buy a home, but when its time to sell, everyone is happy.