S/o why put more emphasis on bar than bat mitzvahs?

Aylat

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:35 am

In the yeshivish and chassidic community there is a change in dress code, not in the MO community or the DL community where I live.

It's not just checking eggs, it's fundamental. A post bat mitzva girl is obligated in mitzvot, it's not just 'practice' or chinuch. My daughter started to be careful that her elbows were covered. She doesn't eat on Friday night or Shabbat morning until making kiddush. She knows she has to daven even on school holidays.

That deserves to be marked.

ETA should be marked, because that affects how the girl will relate to her new status.

Aylat

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:45 am

amother wrote:

I don't agree. I spent about $1000 on DD's party and close to $30,000 on DS's party. That doesn't include the kiddish, and I didn't buy a new sheital or a diamond anniversary band. The community can't afford to match the girls with the boys. I often get appeals to give money for Bar Mitzvahs as it is. Do you really think we should impose another obligation on top of all the ones now because some think it is positive for woman?

Girls will have their days when they get married.

But that's ridiculous. Instead the OTT boys' parties should be toned down.

I'm in a different community, I honestly don't even know what you're talking about with that scale of celebration.

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:59 am

Aylat wrote:

But that's ridiculous. Instead the OTT boys' parties should be toned down.

I'm in a different community, I honestly don't even know what you're talking about with that scale of celebration.

Regrettably, the parties are not going to be toned down. They are getting even bigger than when I last made a simcha. The financial pressures are tremendous. People borrow and beg money for the party.

The girls school has rules against big parties tir Bas Mitzvahs. I think this is a good thing not to double the obligations for a party.

Aylat

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:04 am

amother wrote:

This makes me sad.

I really am clueless. What are ppl spending on? What type of celebration is it?

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:22 am

Aylat wrote:

This makes me sad.

I really am clueless. What are ppl spending on? What type of celebration is it?

The money is spent on the hall, the musician, the CD, the food, invitations, the benchers, the caterers, the photographer, the table clothes, the flowers. Some spend for lighting.

There are additional expenses for clothes and makeup. Often, the mom is given a diamond anniversary band for the first bar mitzvah.

The boy needs to be kitted out also. DH wanted a certain sofar for the tehilim. That was pricey.

I tried to keep things toned down when I started. I didn't take a party planner. I took the napkins and table clothes the caterer provided. But I ended up paying an up charge for floor length. That's how everything went.

DrMom

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:39 am

amother wrote:

Yikes. Diamonds? Srsly?

I don't think posters are encouraging crass, over-the-top affairs for boys AND girls. Rather, meaningful events for both genders within a reasonable budget, with a similar scale for each one.

BTW, to the poster who thinks the only mitzvah that a bat mitzvah girl does is checking eggs: Are your girls all scullery maids?

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:50 am

DrMom wrote:

Realistically, you are not going to be able to get the community to scale back on boys parties. So the options become to leave things as they are or give the girls over the top parties also.

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 3:26 am

amother wrote:

Realistically, you are not going to be able to get the community to scale back on boys parties. So the options become to leave things as they are or give the girls over the top parties also.

Families with many children have less lavish weddings than families with fewer kids. They know they have to make many events. Once families start making events for all children, not just boys, they will naturally scale back. The folks who can make over the top parties will keep at it for all their children, and those who can't, won't.

Aylat

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 4:03 am

DrMom wrote:

I don't think posters are encouraging crass, over-the-top affairs for boys AND girls. Rather, meaningful events for both genders within a reasonable budget, with a similar scale for each one.

This.

Raisin

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 5:32 am

Boys have weddings too. Unless in your circles women only marry women?

I think boys should have simpler bar mitzvos and girls should have nicer ones. They obviously won't be identical since a girl doesn't have an aliya but they should be a nice kavodik celebration. Banning girls from inviting their classmates is horrible. Not every girl has a wide extended family to invite.

My sons bar mitzvos were a bit bigger then the girls since I invited only women to the bas mitzvos. But same hall, similar food and decor. They got similar types of gifts from our not frum community but since we had less guests for the girls they did get a smaller amount of money.

I wouldn't count tefillin as part of the cost of the party.

And no one needs a diamond necklace for her sons bar mitzva. !!!!

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 6:06 am

amother wrote:

Wrong. This isn't happening now with other simchas. Large families do not scale back for events. They ask the community to support them. If the community can't support, they go to other communities.

What is stopping anyone now from making the same event for their daughters and sons?

In RW circles, it is the rebbenim. Nothing is going to happen until you get them on board. I don't see the inclusion of women a priority.

SixOfWands

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 6:13 am

amother wrote:

I always heard that the boy has a bar mitzvah and the girl has a wedding... I think it's fair.

I’m pretty sure that the Orthodox community doesn’t allow women to marry without men. That would certainly be a bigger change than having a nice party for a girl who is now obligated to perform mitzvot.

pesek zman

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 6:22 am

amother wrote:

we had a long thread on this awhile back - but I can't find it, unfortunately. (and some wedding the men are basically in a separate room from the women, celebrating with the chosson).

I know there is a lot more to it than 'not tznius'.

I've been to dozens of these weddings: I have chassidish family. But this is not what the OP is referring to

Ema of 5

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 7:16 am

amother wrote:

There are some that say fancy bar mitzvahs are an American mishegas. In Europe a bar mitzvah was not a big deal. You had an aliyah and a kiddush.

I know a family that still tries to do it this way. But they do take the boy's feelings into account, so if he wants a party with his friends they do that. But they barely invite anyone to the bar mitzvah seudah, and they do it very simply.

Why is how it was in Europe the be all and end all of how we should live our lives? They did things how they did it, we do things how we do it. Not everyone is even from Europe!!
It seems to me that the reason there is more emphasis on the bar mitzva is because, in general, Judaism is more focused on the males. Men also have many more obligations to fulfill than women. It’s one of the reasons why men say “shelo asani isha.” As to why there are parties that men are not invited to, it’s probably becasue in those circles, women and girls don’t dance and sing in front of men. Very often there will be professional entertainers dancing with the girls and using a microphone to sing and lead the girls, and in those circles such Hong’s are not permitted in front of men.

Ema of 5

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 7:23 am

amother wrote:

$30,000????? That’s a loooooot of money!!!
Maybe if there wasn’t a desire to spend so much money on the boys, there wouldn’t be as many appeals, and more money could be spent on the girls. What do people think this is saying to their daughters?

Last edited by Ema of 5 on Fri, Apr 20 2018, 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Jade

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 7:24 am

amother wrote:

this is not true at all!! Where in the world do you live? Maybe this is chasidish standards but never heard of this in the jpf or yeshivish world. The budget halls in Brooklyn, lakewood, Monsey are booked solid.

Ema of 5

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 7:33 am

amother wrote:

Pressure is only there if you allow it to be. There are people in my community who probably make such bad mitzvahs. I feel neither the need or the desire, so I won’t. I have enough real things to go into debt for, I don’t need to make myself crazy to ALSO keep up with the cohens when I can’t afford it and have no desire to do so. What are people doing already that costs $30,000???