S/o why put more emphasis on bar than bat mitzvahs?

Ema of 5

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 7:42 am

amother wrote:

The money is spent on the hall, the musician, the CD, the food, invitations, the benchers, the caterers, the photographer, the table clothes, the flowers. Some spend for lighting.

There are additional expenses for clothes and makeup. Often, the mom is given a diamond anniversary band for the first bar mitzvah.

The boy needs to be kitted out also. DH wanted a certain sofar for the tehilim. That was pricey.

I tried to keep things toned down when I started. I didn't take a party planner. I took the napkins and table clothes the caterer provided. But I ended up paying an up charge for floor length. That's how everything went.

There are scales for all those things. You don’t need a fancy hall, just a nice one. You don’t need the most expensive musician out there. You don’t NEED a cd (what cd? I’ve never gotten a cd from a bar mitzva.) same with food, invitations, benchers, photographer, decor, etc. you don’t NEED to go all out. I’m pretty sure a boy will turn 13 and be obligated in more mitzvos even if he doesn’t have an over the top celebration.

As for fancy sheitels, expensive jewelry...etc, again, it’s only done becasue people feel pressure to do so.

When I think about the cost of my boys’ bar mitzva celebrations, I don’t count tefillin on that list, becasue it’s a non negotiable cost. A boy needs tefillin. Also it’s not part of the party.

Ema of 5

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 7:48 am

amother wrote:

Wrong. This isn't happening now with other simchas. Large families do not scale back for events. They ask the community to support them. If the community can't support, they go to other communities.

What is stopping anyone now from making the same event for their daughters and sons?

In RW circles, it is the rebbenim. Nothing is going to happen until you get them on board. I don't see the inclusion of women a priority.

Maybe in your circle. My sister has double digit children. Their weddings and bar mitzvah are not over the top at all. They are not asking the community to support them. They make beautiful smachos which they can afford. They are very right wing.

watergirl

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 8:04 am

eema of 3 wrote:

This. I have never EVER seen a bar mitzvah like the $30,000 one described. And I’ve taught at some schools with the wealthiest parents. And thats not even including the kiddish? What? WHY??!! And what message does this all give to the boys? Its raising self important little boys who grow up to become self important men. Why not teach them an element of modesty also?

I’ve made a number of bar mitzvahs and bas mitzvahs and have done them similarly. Small parties for both boys and girls. Yes, the boys cost more because they got tfillin. We spent maybe $150 on a hat. Ok, and $25 for boys donuts to take to school for putting on tfillin. As for a kiddish for boys, we contrinuted to the shuls but nothing extravagant. And we absolutely kept it with what we could afford. Which was extremely extremely modest. Do people in my community do we more than we did? Yes. Do people do we less than we did? Yes.

And the wedding being all about the girl? What? Why? And read any thread in here about ridiculous chosson gifts. I honestly can’t imagine with the family who throws a $30,000 plus bar mitzvah would expect in terms of chosson gifts.

These girls who just check eggs - wow. I think priorities are confused. And I’m thankful that my daughters school spends a whole year on “project yud beis” to instill a real sense of pride in being a Jewish women and show them that they are worth far more than just checking eggs.

saw50st8

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 8:05 am

When I was growing up and went to a right wing elementary school, just about every girl had a bat mitzvah party (some fancier than others, depending on a variety of factors).

I live in a fairly affluent community now, but I have definitely noticed a trend towards downgrading bar mitzvahs and upgrading bat mitzvahs. I don't feel the need to keep up with the Cohens. My kids understand that everyone has different amounts of money and spends it differently. The only "cohen" thing I really want is to get personalized kippahs (that's a thing here - you get a monogram on a kippah). I like it because it's fun and practical. Even some of the girls get them for their bat mitzvahs to give their fathers/grandfathers/brothers/friends.

Mommyg8

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 8:06 am

amother wrote:

I keep hearing on imamother about the community supporting families. Well, I'm game, but I'm still looking for that supposed support... is there something I'm missing? shock

watergirl

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 8:08 am

amother wrote:

Regrettably, the parties are not going to be toned down. They are getting even bigger than when I last made a simcha. The financial pressures are tremendous. People borrow and beg money for the party.

The girls school has rules against big parties tir Bas Mitzvahs. I think this is a good thing not to double the obligations for a party.

This is so backwards. The rabbeim have messed up priorities if they think that they’re doing the right thing. Modest parties for boys should be encouraged or mandated, just like the girls have rules, the boys should also.

At my sons old Yeshiva, The rabbi who is in charge of all of the finances has a blanket policy that he does not attend any bar mitzvahs. He’s very open about why as well… He says that once he sees the parties that these parents throw, he can no longer award them financial assistance. If you have That much money with which to make such an over-the-top a party, and you surely have enough money to support the community. (Amother who made the $30,000 party - I am not in any way saying that you dont give tzeddaka. I’m sure you do. This isnt addressed to you).

People borrow and beg for money to make a party for a 13 year old boy? Thats messed up. Sorry.

Instead of doubling obligations for a party, a big look needs to be taken at what “obligations” are. Lighting? CD? Diamonds? I cant.

Last edited by watergirl on Fri, Apr 20 2018, 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total

leah233

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 8:54 am

A boys life is changed far more after his Bar Mitzvah than a girls after her Bas Mitvah . He starts putting on Tefilin on a daily basis etc. And he already been doing were more mitzovhs but now he is doing them as a gadol. Therefore the event of his accepting and commencing a life of mitzvohs is more noteworthy than a girl doing so .When you are celebrating someone doing mitzvos the more mitzvos they will be doing the bigger the celebration.

watergirl

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:05 am

leah233 wrote:

Do you really believe that?

To me, this smacks of gaiiva.

And who are we to decide which gender’s commitment is more noteworthy? Or who is doing “more mitzvos”? After 120 I guess we’ll have our answer.

Raisin

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:09 am

leah233 wrote:

My counter argument to that is that men tend to do more and far worse aveiros then women.

amother

Aquamarine

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:15 am

In my opinion it's wrong unfair and not ok . I am a mom of girls so does that mean I can't celebrate my children Bec they are not boys while I go to all my in-laws bar mitzvahs?? A wedding in not about the girl it's about the couple and what irks me the most is that Schools BAN bat mitzvah party while the boys can have what they want . It's all wrong wrong wrong.boys and girls have different mitzvahs and they are both important and saying boys are more important is just revolting. ( And I am not some big feminist) I am so happy I send to a school that let's me do what I want and I can't wait to celebrate my daughtes bat mitzvah when the time comes. By the way all my brothers got fancy party and I had a party in a run down shul Bec that what was appropriate according to my mother . I get whatever I choose to do will have to be within my budget but so would a bar mitzvah in general I am not going to do something more then my wallet let's .

pesek zman

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:18 am

leah233 wrote:

Absolutely horrified by this assessment. As I am by the posters who are saying the girl gets a wedding (as if a Jewish woman's role is only important in a supporting role to a man)

Ema of 5

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:20 am

leah233 wrote:

More mitzvos really equals more important? Poor girls....it’s a good thing people in my circle don’t feel this way. I’d be very upset, knowing that I truly am a second class citizen. That’s not what my Judaism is all about. My Judaism is about each person being the best individual they can be, learning and growing and connecting to hashem in their own way. Quality is more important than quantity.

Chayalle

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:28 am

amother wrote:

I'm another mother of girls and DH was adamantly against Bat Mitzva parties. I will say this - had we had sons, I don't think their parties would've been particularly fancy or over the top. In general, we favor a toned-down, simple approach. I might have done the cooking myself and made a simple affair in a shul, in any case.

I did mark my daughter's Bat Mitzva by taking them to choose a nice, expensive (for our budget) piece of jewelry, and they invited their cousins and friends to a Challah baking in our home, where they did the hafrasha and each guest took home her own homemade, delicious Challah.

BTW R' Moshe Feinstein, when asked about Bar/Bat Mitzvah's, said that if it was up to him he'd say to do neither.

My grandfather A"H told me that that was the case when he grew up. His father was OOT the day of his Bar Mitzvah. He was given an Aliyah, and after davening the Rav invited him to drink a L'Chaim with him.

leah233

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:31 am

watergirl wrote:

I knew I would get slammed for my answer but are you denying that men have more mitzvos than women do?

I didn't say anything about after 120. I think a women who sacrificed more for mitzvos than a men certainly will be better better off than him after 120.

PinkFridge

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:32 am

amother wrote:

I felt very guilty making my son a nice bar mitzvah a year after my Dd had a tiny bas mitzvah w just us at home.
I don't get ity either.

A lot of this is community norms.
We don't make ~~mini weddings~~ big bar mitzvah bashes. We had doughnuts in school when the boys put in tefillin, a bo bayom dinner for class and rebbeim, a Kiddush on Shabbos with my sons leining, and at most 2.5 dozen relatives who came in. This was pretty standard for the boys.
No, family doesn't travel for bas mitzvahs, though I do have clusters of relatives in one city and there they make bas mitzvah shalosh seudoses/dinners for the women in the family. Not sure what they do for the girl's classmates. What we did do for our girls was make a class party, and we never did birthday parties. Nice meal, project (not meaningful but fun) and some of my dd's gave a brief dvar Torah.

Chayalle

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:32 am

eema of 3 wrote:

Somehow this reminds me - though I'm likely going off on a tangent - of a story I once heard about a Chassid who wanted to travel to his Rebbe - the Belz Rebbe in Poland - for Yomim Noraim. His wife agreed to stay home with the kids if he would promise that she get half of his reward for the spiritual gains he'd make while at the Rebbe. When he got to the Rebbe, the Rebbe told him he should've asked his wife to promise him half of HER reward for staying home and taking care of the household and kids!

Our teen girls may not put on Tefillin, but they get up early each morning and come home late (my DD is out from 7:30 to about 6 p.m.) loaded down with homework...and yet they go to Chessed, they babysit for neighbors, they help out at home with various household tasks, they visit nursing homes, etc.....I think their responsibilities and accomplishments deserve to be acknowledged and celebrated too.

PinkFridge

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 9:35 am

amother wrote:

I am not interested in reengineering orthodox Judaism. I like my traditional role at home and in my community; although, I am a raging feminist in the workplace.

It is actually a good thing financially there isn't community pressure to have the same big over the top blowout for the girls.

It's actually a good thing that in my community there isn't pressure to have big over the top blowouts for the boys. (Not minimizing the cost of a Kiddush and meals for say, a few dozen family members, but there are ways to do a lot yourself, vs. what is, in effect, a wedding.)