S/O Why is adult FRUM literature awful?

amother

Ruby

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:18 pm

As a published author, I can say that in my opinion it is a number game. The pay for Jewish writing commensurate with the amount of work and talent it takes to produce a very well written book, is beyond pathetic. It just isnt possible for someone who is writing for an income to spend the amount of time that non Jewish writers spend on their books.

That being said - is all Jewish literature really awful? That just sounds like an awfully strong word to use. I understand what's missing - the romance and the super well polished work, but I have found many 'frum' novels and books to be enjoyable reads. I've felt satisfied and 'clean' reading them. Maybe they arent NYT best sellers, but they do have a lot to offer to the world.

Most recently, I've enjoyed the novels: Face Value, A Fragile Thread (old I know, but new for me) Role Call (not a novel) They fill my reading crave, give me enjoyable characters to read and think about, and left me feeling quite satisfied without comprimising my Yiddishkeit in the slightest way.

Those are my thoughts. Curious to hear how others feel.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:19 pm

I am a frequent writer of fiction for Jewish publications and putting aside whether there is talent or not, I don't think anything of literary quality will ever come out of frum fiction simply because of the hashkafic restrictions placed on writers. There are so many taboo topics, and there can be no proper exploration of a character because there are so many thoughts and facets of a character that can't be addressed...There's been progress in recent years, but I don't think it'll ever reach the point that someone who's ever read a good book will be impressed.

amother

Copper

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:24 pm

Have you ever read a frum book that really went deep into a couple's romantic relationship? I'm not talking about s - x , it sometimes seems that love is of limits.

I would love to write a novel, I have already developed where I want the characters and plot to go, but I don't think I will end up writing it. A huge part of the plot is the impact of a crisis being the impetus to the characters moving their marriage from a "business" type relationship to a real, emotionally intimate, and romantic relationship. I can't see myself writing it in a manner a frum publisher would be ok with. I stillbirth after TTC for a while is a huge part of the plot - how do you delve into the emotions and keep it real without becoming a little gory?

little neshamala

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:24 pm

amother wrote:

I just posted this in the other thread but Every Man a Slave by Sender Zeyv is a fascinating book that is unlike any other frum literature.

So funny. I opened this thread only to recommend this book Very Happy

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:41 pm

I found that books by Rachel Pomerantz (Wildflower, A Time To Rend A Time To Sew) had very well-developed characters.

The first 2/3 of Sun Inside Rain (M. Bassara) was magnificent. The end sounded like the publisher was nudging her to finish already.

The Pomegranate Pendant is also wonderful. For "newer" literature, The Four Seasons of Golda Mirel (Eva Vogiel I think) was really very well done.

There are a few gems, and a few gems that could have used a bit more polishing. But there is an awful lot of chaff to weed through, unfortunately.

Chayalle

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:47 pm

amother wrote:

Agree with these. There was also another book by Rachel Pomerantz that you missed - Cactus Blossoms or s/t like that.

I know this is about frum adult books, but for kids, my alltime favorite frum book has been The Exiles of Crocodile Island.

Iymnok

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:56 pm

Some Marcus Lehman.
It’s really all good, but since it was written in German, some translations lack the beauty and poetry of his writing.
Like, Akiba is a really dumbed down translation. The words are right, but the feeling and depth is missing.

amother

Teal

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 4:13 pm

Chayalle wrote:

There was a book Behind the Walls that had that situation and was published by frum publishers. Not sure why your father's book was banned.

They’re one and the same. My father wrote it in Yiddish.
I’m not sure either but that’s what happened.

Zehava

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 4:19 pm

Iymnok wrote:

I loved his books in Yiddish. They are definitely very poetic and descriptive. As a child they fired up my imagination and gave me a love for history.

DVOM

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 4:45 pm

amother wrote:

I'm really curious about this. Do you feel comfortable elaborating? What sorts of things would be censored?

amother

Gold

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 5:56 pm

amother wrote:

So write it for a general audience, not specifically for a frum audience. a real romance novel isn’t gonna fly for frum publishers. And re the stillbirth after ttc, it can be done, but I often find in frum lit writers go for the BIG earth shattering cliche crisis, maybe overcompensating for the emotions and relationships that are too taboo to explore... Subtelty. nuanced writing. Character development. Sharp dialogue. Really good editing. That’s what we need.
Edited to add I do think EG Reich does frum romance very well...I love her work

Raisin

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 6:15 pm

keym wrote:

Most frum books at least fiction start off as serials. They tend to be more drawn out and written differently than a regular novel. Also they go through intense criticism with a years worth of comments. Though I believe the hope is that readers will buy the book by being hooked into the serial.

Dickens wrote all or most of his novels as serials originally. And his books are amazing. (seriously, if you want clean, funny, interesting plots read him. Skip out Oliver Twist if you can't handle the anti semitic stereotyping. He has another book with a positive Jewish character...Our Mutual friend I think.)

amother

Denim

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 6:18 pm

Really good books manage to critique a specific society while remaining timeless (think Pride and Prejudice, Grapes of Wrath, Age of Innocence). Frum writers are not allowed to critique frum society, even if they pretend to by talking about materialism and superficiality in shidduchim. I as a yeshivish woman am fine with this, because I don't want books criticizing rabbonim, BY teachers, or the kollel system. But a book on par with the classics would have to portray the problems with all of those.

I did like The Lost Children of Tarshish. A lot. Nothing was missing with the lack of romance (the other big problem with frum novels) because it was all boys. I wonder if a similar novel could be written with just girls.

Raisin

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 6:22 pm

The exiles of crocodile Island is a book I really enjoyed as a child and read around 1 million times.

Also, the series of books by sarah birnhack of which the first was called search my heart is excellent. (And the crazy far-fetched plot actually happened.)

fmt4

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 6:40 pm

Raisin wrote:

Not just Dickens! Many of the most famous novels were serialized- Vanity Fair by Thackeray, Middlemarch by George Eliot, even Ulysses by James Joyce! It was very common and a way for authors to drum up interest.

OOTBubby

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 6:49 pm

amother wrote:

Do you know when the last 2 in the series are going to be translated to English?

I've been waiting for them too. Though my Israeli grandsons read them in Hebrew and said they weren't as good as the first two.

amother

Silver

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 7:30 pm

I don't mean to be rude, but sometimes people lack an understanding that frum
literature should be just that- frum literature. When writers cross certain boundaries, it is
non -frum literature. Two people I know read fiction by non-frum authors. They simply have their heads on straight and do not expect this kind of entertainment from the frum publishing houses.

Chayalle

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 7:39 pm

Raisin wrote:

I think there is interest in the wider secular Jewish world for novels from a frum perspective...think of the novels by Naomi Ragen, Tova Mirvis and others, all published by secular publishing houses.

Disclaimer - I didn't read these. But I've heard that they are full of distortion, and wouldn't exactly call them "from a frum perspective" for that reason.