Restrictions on food because of cost

amother

Bisque

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 9:32 pm

amother wrote:

My dh seems to believe that children should be taught to eat only as much as they need to not be hungry and not more. He believes foods that are expensive should be consumed sparingly or not at all.
Anything unnecessary should not be eaten.

For example milk for cereal is fine. A cup of milk at lunch is an extravagance.
Yogurt and juice are luxuries. Snacks are luxuries.

How do I convince him what is normal and healthy and stop him from influencing our kids to eat less? Our kids are all skinny and should eat more. I keep telling him not to say a word to the kids and he tries but he tells me he can’t handle seeing the kids eat so much (in his opinion)
Also how much is a normal amount for teenagers to eat? More than an adult?

Sounds like this way of thinking was how he was raised. (we ate well, buy my mother was very careful with purchases. Yogurt wasn't a luxury, but buying the small single serve ones was. I buy those... but those yogurt drinks... can't bring myself to it)

You probably can't convince him. A few sessions with a certified nutritionist might.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 9:48 pm

Op here. Thanks for the validation. I know my kids will be at risk of eating disorders because of his behaviour. It kills me to watch.
Is it ok to tell a kid 2 slices of pizza is enough you can’t have more?
What about saying 1 pickle is plenty don’t take 2?
What about “save some for your siblings don’t finish the whole thing” and then everyone getting less of that expensive item than they wanted because there wasn’t enough for everyone to have as much as they wanted.

I don’t let my dh say anything when it’s healthy food but non-nutritionally important foods I don’t know if I should stop him or not.

I know he has an unhealthy attitude towards food. I’m just trying to protect my kids. He also has an unhealthy attitude towards money and both are at play here.

amother

Tan

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 10:00 pm

If you are tight on $ then juice is a luxury. Think about it, price of one container of orange juice. How many cups do you get out of it? People can make rice, beans, eggs & vegetables for a family for the same price. Drink water. Or at least water down the juice. Yogurts not on a good sale are luxury. It's math. You can feed them all they can eat much more economically. Then again, once the groceries are home it's for eating. Unless you say I bought one yogurt for each person.

Teaching to stop eating when they are no longer hungry is a really good habit that will serve them well in life.

amother

Navy

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 10:15 pm

It sounds to me like your DH needs therapy, and fast.

I remember decades ago about a woman who fed her family of 4 on $16 a week. Believe it or not, I still remember her name.

If you google "joann york feeds family" images, the first pic is her book.

Well, to me, at the time, they all looked scrawny and malnourished.

She said she could bake bread cheap, but they'd eat more of it than if she bought day-old.

Shades of anorexia, I say.

But in the case of OP's DH, it's very likely some kind of dysfunctional childhood. If he won't see a therapist take it up with your Rabbi if possible. But help your kids, please! You don't want them to CHV be caught shoplifting or selling drugs to be able to buy what they need.

33055

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 10:24 pm

amother wrote:

2 slices of pizza is plenty. 570 calories in one sitting is a lot especially if you add a drink to it.

3 slices would be 855 without a drink. That is too much.

This is why I said you should go to a nutritionist to learn normal portions.

amother

Coffee

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 11:23 pm

amother wrote:

Does he have other issues that are this extreme? Please go to a pediatrician you trust and both of u should explain his. Concerns and have the doctor explain that children need food t live and are allowed to have snacks!

33055

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 11:54 pm

amother wrote:

I weigh 96 pounds and am 4"10 and I eat 4 slices at a time.
My teenage sons can eat 5 or more.

OP, as you well know, this is very wrong and damaging. You all need help.

Normal people can't eat around 1200 calories a sitting and weigh 96 lbs. You are an exception.

I hope your sons inherited your metabolism because around 1500 calories for a meal is too much.

Most frum teenage boys aren't burning off enough calories that 1500 a sitting won't make them obese.

My teenagers eat two slices at the most or one loaded slice. They are empowered to make healthy choices, and they know portion control. I don't monitor their eating, but they will come to me and ask questions.

Since my kids don't have superpowers to eat 4 slices at a sitting and weigh 96lbs, they need education on proper nutrition.

etky

Thu, Apr 26 2018, 12:52 am

No one should really be eating more than 2 pieces of pizza at a time.
It may be considered relatively 'healthy' fast food because of the protein and the lycopene in the sauce but it is high in cholesterol and saturated fat which is unhealthy even for skinny people and teenage boys .
Anyone who is still hungry after two slices should fill up on something else served along with the pizza.
In our circles 2 slices is considered a standard portion of pizza when ordering and sharing a pie with others. I don't think your DH is off regarding this thing in particular.
Regarding the other items, it's hard to say. Your DH has a point about being mindful of portions but it sounds like he's being too controlling. That in itself can be problematic when dealing with kids, especially in regard to food.

seeker

Thu, Apr 26 2018, 1:17 am

amother wrote:

First of all, it's hard to "convince [him] what is normal and healthy" because normal is relative and healthy is a range.

But my view is that expense should guide the choice of which food, and hunger should (ideally) guide how much.

If yogurt is too expensive, then either get cheaper yogurt or some other more affordable protein of similar nutritive value. Same for snacks - kids need to eat; they don't need to eat Bissli (random example, I actually have no idea what Bissli costs because I literally never buy it).

If a cup of milk at lunch is extravagant, then drink water but find something else for nourishment. I actually do limit my kids' milk. I think if you're thirsty then mainly what your body needs is water. You don't need to gulp down milk just for a wet, smooth feeling. If they want milk, they get a cup of milk. If they're still thirsty, they get a cup of water. The reason I do this is because if they're always drinking milk then how are they going to get enough water? They're not such big drinkers in the first place. Also, milk IS expensive if you're using it as a drink and not just as a food.

Juice is most definitely not a necessity by any measure. IT's not soda but it is a lot of calories and sugar for not quite enough nutritious benefit. Not necessarily cheaper but better to buy oranges than orange juice, apples than apple juice. Fiber is important.

It's good to learn to eat to be satisfied and then stop. It's a skill many people suffer for not having. But for health reasons, not for money reasons. Also for not wasting Hashem's gifts. But when you start mixing money into food things you're asking for a lot of complicated feelings growing up.

I think instead of trying to convince or push your opinion on him, maybe you could find a way to increase nutrition education for your whole family including him. Get some good books to have around the house of how to fuel your bodies and your kids'.

Meanwhile, if he says he can't handle seeing the kids eat so much, I'd actually consider moving some mealtimes away from dad times... sad but if he's so emotionally hung up on it that it's going to make everyone crazy, that may be the simplest way out. On Shabbos you can say it's lekovod Shabbos and off the budget anyway.

Amarante

Thu, Apr 26 2018, 1:37 am

A cup of milk at lunch is NOT an extravagance.

What kind of snacks are you talking about - people who don't worry about the expense limit empty calories but don't limit healthy foods - of course yogurt (IMO) eaten in excess is not such a healthy food if it is the kind that is sweetened as opposed to plain yogurt that one mixes with fruit. For me it's not the expense of yogurt.

You say your kids don't have a weight problem so obviously the whole issue of their not knowing what their body feels isn't an issue.

However, what is your food budget and what can you objectively afford. Your husband says you can't afford it - or seems to and you seem to think you can afford it. Therefore you and your husband should sit down and agree upon a realistic food budget that reflects your actual financial situation.

In my personal experience, people who can afford to don't scrimp on food for their families - they might not eat rib eye steaks every night but they make sure there is plenty of healthy wholesome food for their families and unless a child seems to be exhibiting an eating disorder or has some medical issue, they allow their kids to self regulate among healthy food choices.

When I was growing up, one of my girlfriend's father was a real miser. She told me that he complained about toilet paper, shampoo and food being eaten. If children were visiting, he would glare at us if we were in the kitchen and her mother had given us a snack to eat. They had no financial issues and actually had an estate of a few million dollars :-) But his miserliness scarred her relationship with her father - but I imagine he was also miserly with affection as well and the food, toilet paper and general miserliness was just symbolic of other issues.

Last edited by Amarante on Thu, Apr 26 2018, 1:39 am; edited 1 time in total