Which gender you truly want

Simple1

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 6:14 pm

amother wrote:

Actually it comes from the Gemara..
Gemara says (can find out exactly where) the world needs hide tanners (who have a bad smell) just like it needs diamond cutters, but good for the one who is in diamonds! The same is to genders, the world needs both but good for whoever is zoche to have the boys! (If you hug, it’s a Gemara not me)
There are also many Gemaras that mention segulos and davening for boys but never girls. I heard that someone with a bunch of boys once asked Rav Chaim Kanievsky if he can daven for a girl, and he said there is no such Tefillah.

But chin up ladies, the world still need us!! Smile

(ETA dh always says it’s a shvere Gemara (difficult to understand)- as for now we have only girls and loving every minute!!!)

That was at a time where women were less valued. There is enough Gemara to go around, we don't have to focus on parts that are very hard to relate to.

Raisin

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 6:20 pm

amother wrote:

(ETA dh always says it’s a shvere Gemara (difficult to understand)- as for now we have only girls and loving every minute!!!)

Its unsurprising that men prefer boys. What we are discussing is mothers preferring boys or girls.

Amother with no children - for sure we all want healthy children of either gender so it definitely feels ungrateful to want a specific gender, but there it is, us humans are weird and we can't always help our feelings.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 6:38 pm

icebreaker wrote:

I wanted girls after attending my nephew’s bris. He was screaming, my sister was crying and had to step out, my mother and grandmother were crying. I was just like nope nope can’t do it. I had a girl first, then a boy. I was a nervous wreck during his bris but I got through it, thank Gd. Then my last was a girl. But I never really had a real preference, if I think back to when I was first pregnant and wondered what the baby would be.

I feel exactly this way. We don't have any yet, but I grew up with a million younger brothers. At the time, I always wished for a sister but I ended up loving my younger bothers. I took care of them, to the point that as I got older, I thought I only know how to take care of boys, so I wanted boys.

However, I feel like I would relate more to a girl so I might prefer girls. And the nice thing would be not having to deal with the bris. I know it's a mitzvah but I can't imagine having to hear my baby cry like that.

Metukah

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 6:45 pm

I want a mix of both and that is what I always wanted. Before my first was born I wanted a boy so that I could make a pidyon haben and that dh could have a kaddish'l. But it was in no way because I prefer boys. First dc was a boy. Then I wanted my next one to be a girl; so I could have 1 of each. When I was pregnant with my third I genuinely did not care either way. I was convinced throughout that it was a boy but was just as excited that it was a girl.
I would like my 4th to be a boy just so that I have 2 of each (but I will be happy with a girl too) , after that (if there are more) I really don't care. Happy, healthy children is all I need and want.

amother

White

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 7:20 pm

Simple1 wrote:

That was at a time where women were less valued. There is enough Gemara to go around, we don't have to focus on parts that are very hard to relate to.

Respectfully I must take issue with your comment which seems to suggest that the Gemara is “outdated” cv.. I agree that it may be difficult for us to relate to or understand and we don’t necessarily have to. Many of these Gemaras have a much deeper Kabbalistic meaning and are written cryptically for that very reason.
And to the contrary-there are many many Gemaras and medrashim that tout the value and importance of women in every aspect of life, over a thousand years before feminism became “a thing”.

thunderstorm

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 7:48 pm

I have four boys ka"h and wanted a boy each time. I'm B"H expecting and I now want a girl badly. My DH has been dying for a girl since after my first so I think at this point we both want a girl. But I have to say that if I have a girl I'd feel lost. I'm used to boys only. I don't even know how to change a girls diaper 🙈.
I relate to boys better in general . I always preferred being a boys daycamp counselor and boys teacher over girls. My DH , on the other hand can't wait to have a little princess to spoil. He has special bonds with my nieces on both sides of the family. He has tons of patience for whiny, kvetchy girls... me, not so much. But I still want a girl at this point.

Simple1

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 8:38 pm

amother wrote:

Sorry, I didn't mean it in that way. I realized after posting that it could be misunderstood. But that's why mesorah is so important -learning from living people who help us understand the Torah in a relevant way. And BH, most girls today are not taught that they are inferior.

dancingqueen

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 9:47 pm

amother wrote:

m

Whether it’s kabalistic or not, the fact is that the Gemara was written at a time when women were considered less than men and those statements reflect that reality.

Tzutzie

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 10:36 pm

Both.
Both dh and I had that vision of perfect.
First a girl. Then a sister. Then a boy. Then a brother. After that no differece.
So far we've got out two girls. Where hoping for a boy now.
But we will take whatever we can get. Every child is a precious gift. No matter the packaging. we'll be just as happy with a girl. It's always fun doing more pretty hair styles. Smile

It was more like a fun joke than a real desire to have a pattern/specific gender.
I know someone who so badly wanted the opposite gender. Finally after multiple children of one gender she had the opposite gender. When the child after that was of the dominant gender the woman had a very very difficult time bonding with that child. And never really came to terms with it. And this child, now an adult is very messed up.
So be careful about your expectations.

amother

White

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 10:50 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

m

Whether it’s kabalistic or not, the fact is that the Gemara was written at a time when women were considered less than men and those statements reflect that reality.

You may be correct about that being the reality in those times but in no way are the Gemaras statements “dated” or a reflection of any time specific “reality”. Whatever the meaning, the holy words of Chazal are timeless and are just as relevant now as they were 1500 years ago. In this particular area and in every other area.

fmt4

Mon, Apr 30 2018, 11:53 pm

amother wrote:

[removed]

amother

Taupe

Tue, May 01 2018, 7:24 am

There’s a lot of overt and covert anti-girl themes in being frum. From shelo asani isha to more simchas for a boy (shalom zocher) I think girls internalize as they grow up they’re the second class citizens (at least I did). I’d never admit it in public but I’ve always wanted boys and when I try to pinpoint why I believe it’s from growing up with anti-girl themes in the Torah. Heck it’s even in the gemara that when a boy is born the world is full of peace and joy and when a girl is born it brings sadness. Unfortunately I came across that statement as a teenager and it does mess with how I perceive the genders in frum society.

Simple1

Tue, May 01 2018, 8:10 am

amother wrote:

No. We have Rabbanim (mesorah) to help us to sift through and define what's relevant and what is based on the times.

ETA I don't mean not relevant to learn, but in how we apply it to our lives.

Raisin

Tue, May 01 2018, 9:37 am

amother wrote:

I grew up with the same Torah and I never imbibed these messages. No one took the trouble to teach these anti women messages from the gemara to me. The tanach (which we learnt comprehensively) is full of exemplary female figures. (plus many men doing bad things, very few bad women) We were taught lots of positive things about women, even negative things were spun to be good. eg why women don't wear yarmulkas. We were taught to be tznius because we are princesses, not because we would cause men to stray. (I first read that here!)

I do get upset about things like shalom zachors, bas mitzvas, etc but that does not make me think that boys are more important. I don't think my brother was more important or more loved because he had a shalom zachor, bris and big bar mitzva and I didn't. I think my parents did those things because they were socially acceptable in the frum community.

Its really sad that people (especially women) feel that way!