S/O to ‘Good enough parenting’

amother

Jade

Wed, May 02 2018, 7:45 pm

pause wrote:

Says you. You weren't voted in as the one to set THE rules.
You're entitled to think that pizza is a fine dinner and that kids should be bathed at least 3 times a week. But you don't get to decided that this is what all kids must have, and if they get bathed only twice a week then their mother is neglectful.

I'm wondering if the posters who have posted in the past about their daughter's complaining that their private areas hurt them at night are also the ones who bathe only once a week or twice...

Yes, those areas DO need washing otherwise they get uchy and uncomfortable.

seeker

Wed, May 02 2018, 8:03 pm

amother wrote:

I actually have only taken one of my kids to the dentist one time. The others, never. Maybe I should, but I don't consider it harmful in our specific case. We've all been blessed with very thick enamel. I've never had a cavity or any tooth problems, b"ah. I just don't see the need to take them when they have strong, clean teeth.

As for baths, every day or at most, every other day. One kid, an itchy one, gets every morning no matter what.

WADR, how could you possibly know if your kids have strong enamel or whatever, if they've never been to a dentist? The reason to take healthy mouths to a dentist is to help make sure they stay that way. If you can't swing it every 6 months, then at least go once a year.

seeker

Wed, May 02 2018, 8:16 pm

Regarding the concerns about private areas, we're talking about little kids - as they approach puberty there will be more going on down there. As far as I can tell, the only time my little ones had their privates more smelly than the rest of them was if they weren't wiping well enough. And if there is no time for a bath, and the rest of their body is soft and sweet, then we fix that issue with a baby wipe and proceed with the otherwise functional, well-timed evening routine.

pause

Wed, May 02 2018, 8:43 pm

giselle wrote:

I was recently having this discussion. I think norms are definitely cultural (not including danger or real neglect which should never happen). It’s important that children fit in to some extent. For example if a child actually smells due to showering infrequently, that’s not ok. Just one example, not picking on any posters here. But even within cultures, norms vary. For example, I’d never consider tradition soup an ok meal ever. But I don’t doubt that Chayelle is a great parent, based on her posts. And I probably do some things that she would never consider ok. (I think we’re somewhat in the same circles.) Its a complex topic bec where do we draw the line? Houses don’t have to be spotless, but at what point is it unhealthily messy and dysfunctional? Dinner doesn’t have to always be a home cooked meal, but at what point are your children not getting fed properly? If there’s one thing I’ve learned from imamother is how diverse we all are.

I know I’m not addressing the op. It’s too controversial for me to write my opinion on this... 😬

I agree.
As for where to draw the line? It's about what happens most of the time. Is your home mostly clean most of the time? Are you children getting mostly warm healthy meals most of the time? Do your kids have mostly clean clothing available most of the time?

And in general, is there a routine and some basic rules that give the kids security and predictability? Things that "we do" or "we don't do"... even if they're basic like "we don't use our hands when we want something; we use our mouths."

Miri7

Wed, May 02 2018, 9:22 pm

I grew up in a household with a super mom. Beds were made, everything immaculate, all the time - except our playroom which looked like happy active kids used it.

Family dinner every night. Never leftovers. I have no idea what she did with leftovers as I never saw them. (She must have sent them home with the gardener, an elderly man who didn’t garden much but depended on my family for FT employment).

We bathed every night as I recall. She was the super volunteer at school. Was on every committee and was at every event. Always put together but looking like it was no effort. Was calm, loving and not stressed.

I am not my mother. I work more than full time. I don’t have a full time housekeeper and gardener. I have more than double the kids she had. My kids school and activities are more spread out in an area with a lot more traffic. My life is far more complicated. I couldn’t be my mother and stay sane.

Luckily I learned the concept of good enough parenting. DH and I decided what really matters. For us that means:

- kids are always safe but with room for exploration and independence (not helicoptering)
- family dinner every night. No matter what. Sometimes one parent isn’t home but we set the table and eat a proper meal.
- healthy foods on balance - pizza with cut veggies is fine since we look at how we eat on balance during the week
- kids feel LOVED. So read the extra story instead of rushing to change the laundry.
- house is clean and overall orderly but with a bit of everyday lived in mess.
- kids get to bed early. We felt that adequate sleep is important for their development.
- we have lots of guests even though our house isn’t perfect and our food is good and plentiful but not complicated. Teaching hacnassat orchim to our kids is important.

So we keep our main goals in mind and try to focus on being good, doing the important things and being ok with not being perfect.

amother

Orchid

Wed, May 02 2018, 10:25 pm

amother wrote:

Actually, bathing too often can CAUSE itching, irritation and even infections. There is a natural balance that has to be kept down there. I have been told this by doctors- bathing can dry it out, leading to irritation etc. Also with all the natural systemic balance out of wack, vaginal infections can arise. (Same with douching and putting anything in there that doesn't belong).

dancingqueen

Thu, May 03 2018, 6:29 am

pause wrote:

Most nutritionists and pediatricians would agree that pizza is a perfectly healthy meal sometimes as part of a balanced diet for kids. I do think 3x a week is the minimum. I wouldn’t call 2x a week neglectful but getting a little icky. Once a week is just not enough in American society. See all the threads about dhs who only shower once a week and don’t brush their teeth. Their wives aren’t happy about it....these skills need to be taught from childhood it’s part of being a parent.

Chayalle

Thu, May 03 2018, 7:16 am

giselle wrote:

Thanks for the compliment.

FTR, Chayalle does not consider Tradition Soup to be an okay meal. She just allows it occasionally if a certain 10 year old won't eat supper and that's the option she chooses that particular night, and lets it slide as long as it doesn't happen too often.

amother

Pewter

Thu, May 03 2018, 7:20 am

Doing one or two "good enoughs" is generally not an issue. It becomes dysfunctional/neglectful when you are doing it in every area.

If you aren't making supper, aren't bathing your children, aren't doing HW, are putting them to bed in clothes (or not putting them to bed at all!)...that becomes too much.

Also, what ARE u doing?

amother

Indigo

Thu, May 03 2018, 7:20 am

pause wrote:

B- I love how some people decide that 4 baths is the minimum while pizza bagel is a good enough supper. Who says? What if *I* say that I'd rather do 3, or 2, baths, and serve something wholesome? To many mothers, pizza bagels for supper is akin to not feeding their child. White flour, sugar-laden ketchup, and fully processed dairy. And to them this is even more horrifying than *only* 3 baths a week!!! And to other people, they'd rather use the time to iron the kids' shirts so that they look "just so".

Exactly. I think pizza bagels and tradition soups are such garbage, so once in a while fine, but on a regular basis? you are filling their bodies with junk instead of heallthy nutrients for growing bodies.
On the other hand, I dont see a need to bathe clean kids more than twice a week. Obviously if there was a specific need, but in general, they are clean with 2 baths a week. And there is no lasting effect on their bodies.

pause wrote:

And unmade beds? I've mentioned it on imamother already: I almost never make beds. (I do it l'kovod shabbas.) I see no point in doing something that takes time out of my hectic morning. When I have extra time, I do it for myself because I like how it looks. Otherwise, I close the door to the room and presto, the house is neat. My kids do not sleep better on the days that their bed is made. They couldn't care less; they wouldn't even notice it. I promise they'd rather I use those extra two minutes to tuck them in at night than to make their bed in the morning once they're out of bed.

what difference does it make to a kid to go into an unmade bed? unless they are ocd, most kids are just fine with unmade beds. no less comfortable, no less clean, no less secure for child. As long as the home is clean and overall neat, I really dont see the whole big issue.

amother

Powderblue

Thu, May 03 2018, 8:26 am

I see a lot of posts here talking about "fresh hot meals." OOC, what makes a meal "fresh"? If you serve Shabbos leftovers, is that not a decent meal? What if you cook and freeze for another night (for example, make a double match of meatballs and freeze for another meal)? Is that second meal not good?

Is there another meaning to "fresh" that I'm not aware of, or are any sorts of leftovers (or planned-overs) not in the category of "good"? Do they qualify as "good enough," at least?

simba

Thu, May 03 2018, 8:31 am

amother wrote:

Leftovers and from the freezer is considered "fresh hot" for the sake of this conversation as opposed to cereal and milk or a pb&j sandwich.

abaker

Thu, May 03 2018, 8:39 am

I see nothing wrong with serving a menu like this on a busy week, does anyone object? I think its pretty balanced and reasonable. I totally made up this menu but would be comfortable actually serving it.

sunday- leftover shabbos chicken soup, kugel, chicken
monday-pbj on whole wheat with yogurt and sliced apples
tuesday- tuna patties and rice
wednesday- homemade pizza and soup
thursday- hot dogs and homemade fries and veggies
friday- shabbos meal

I like what another poster said about how if you are "good enough" in every area then it starts to cross the line to dysfunctional. having a tradition soup or a deli sandwich once a week isn't dysfunctional.

pause

Thu, May 03 2018, 8:41 am

dancingqueen wrote:

We can argue specifics from today till tomorrow. FTR, I'm not sharing my opinions here. I was arguing the point that some posters were stating facts as to what constitutes "normal" and important for the child's emotional health. Things that without them, the mother is considered neglecting her kids.

And I say that there are very few universal rules. Let every mother focus on the aspects that she thinks are important, and if she needs the help of her child's doctor or therapist to figure it out - so be it.

But none of us here can say with certainty a specific number of times that a child must be bathed or that pizza can be served.

Bnei Berak 10

Thu, May 03 2018, 9:00 am

abaker wrote:

What is pbj?
Looks like a very good menu!