Need help from experienced mothers of teen daughters please!

amother

Khaki

Sun, May 06 2018, 4:56 pm

My daughter went shopping before Pesach in the frum stores with my mother, who isn'tvery good with clothes, and let my ddaughter make her own selections. My daughter bought a summery blouse and skirt, it was too cold to wear it on Pesach, so she decided to save it for school Shabbos after Shavuos.

She tried it on today, and the skirt is way to short (we go by 4" below the knee, it was maybe 1/2" below, she's tall, it's extremely short on her.). She's insisting it's because she gained weight, is bloated, it wasn't that short when she tried it on, and she will starve herself and by school Shabbos it will fit perfectly.

Obviously that's all ridiculous, she simply selected a skirt that's too short because its really cute, and it was tempting. I told her even if she magically loses five pounds (which is a joke because she's very slim right now), the skirt is just too short and we need to see if we can return it or give it away.

She said "it's not to short!" To which I responded "The halacha is four inches below, and it never will be ok according to halacha (the style is such that it can't be altered or lengthened.), and if that doesn't motivate you, if you go to school Shabbos in that skirt, you will be making a statement to your friends and teachers that you wear short skirts (she is very motivated by peer approval and teacher approval, and is part of a frum, tznius oriented peer group.). I know that's not what you want, honey, so why would you do that to yourself?"

She freaked out, crying "No, no, no, what am I going to doooo??? No, I'm wearing it! I have nothing else cute enough to wear!" (She has many other Shabbos outfits, but this is obviously the newest, latest style.)

I said, "Sweetie, we'll have to see about getting you something else..."

To which she responded "You and Totty don't have enough money to buy me another skirt!"
and slammed the door.

I feel very triggered and humiliated by her response about our ability to buy her a new skirt. I feel accused and belittled. She has been comparing herself to wealthier friends and complaining that we don't have fancy enough things (clothes, cars, etc) a lot lately. I am so sad.

I want to handle this well...can you please help me process her response and use this as a teaching moment?

amother

Denim

Sun, May 06 2018, 4:56 pm

My daughter went shopping before Pesach in the frum stores with my mother, who isn'tvery good with clothes, and let my daughter make her own selections. My daughter bought a summery blouse and skirt, it was too cold to wear it on Pesach, so she decided to save it for school Shabbos after Shavuos.

She tried it on today, and the skirt is way too short (we go by 4" below the knee, it was maybe 1/2" below, she's tall, it's extremely short on her.). She's insisting it's because she gained weight, is bloated, it wasn't that short when she tried it on, and she will starve herself and by school Shabbos it will fit perfectly.

Obviously that's all ridiculous, she simply selected a skirt that's too short because its really cute, and it was tempting. I told her even if she magically loses five pounds (which is a joke because she's very slim right now), the skirt is just too short and we need to see if we can return it or give it away.

She said "it's not too short!" To which I responded "The halacha is four inches below, and it never will be ok according to halacha (the style is such that it can't be altered or lengthened.), and if that doesn't motivate you, if you go to school Shabbos in that skirt, you will be making a statement to your friends and teachers that you wear short skirts (she is very motivated by peer approval and teacher approval, and is part of a frum, tznius oriented peer group.). I know that's not what you want, honey, so why would you do that to yourself?"

She freaked out, crying "No, no, no, what am I going to doooo??? No, I'm wearing it! I have nothing else cute enough to wear!" (She has many other Shabbos outfits, but this is obviously the newest, latest style.)

I said, "Sweetie, we'll have to see about getting you something else..."

To which she responded "You and Totty don't have enough money to buy me another skirt!"
and slammed the door.

I feel very triggered and humiliated by her response about our ability to buy her a new skirt. I feel accused and belittled. She has been comparing herself to wealthier friends and complaining that we don't have fancy enough things (clothes, cars, etc) a lot lately. I am so sad.

I want to handle this well...can you please help me process her response and use this as a teaching moment?

amother

Green

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:09 pm

amother wrote:

I don't have a teenage daughter but I think you were way too harsh . Besides, 4 inches below the knee is not halacha. Why do you have to tell her that her friends and teachers will look at her and that she's making a statement ?! That is terrible for her already low self esteem.
I'm very yeshivish and I do wear my skirts 4 inches below the knee but the way you spoke to your daughter is inexcusable. I hope she will want to cover her knees at all in the future .

amother

Denim

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:13 pm

amother wrote:

Your response hurts a lot, it puts me in tears. But I am willing to be humble and hear what a terrible job I'm doing if you will only help me with a solution, and not just criticism. Thank you.

sim

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:23 pm

I'm an experienced mom of teenage girls. My sympathies for what you're going through. Your daughter sounds like a perfectly normal teen, and I'm sorry that you are both upset.
That being said, the right thing to do here is to buy her another skirt, by hook or by crook. School shabbos is a big deal. If things are tight, do it anyway. This is important.
Next: I'm guessing that your mom takes your kids shopping and takes that financial burden from you at times. She sounds nice, but it seems that you might need to rethink or rework that arrangement if she buys things that don't meet your tznius standards. Perhaps you can go along, or establish that you have veto power?
Last: if money is tight and she feels that she more clothing than you can afford, find a calm time to talk to her privately. Establish that you will buy her a certain number/dollar value of clothing, and you will allow her to use $ she earns to buy the rest on her own, subject to your approval.
Good luck!

MitzadSheini

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:27 pm

amother wrote:

Your response hurts a lot, it puts me in tears. But I am willing to be humble and hear what a terrible job I'm doing if you will only help me with a solution, and not just criticism. Thank you.

You are AWESOME op. I don't have any daughters so I am not qualified to respond. But your humility is inspiring. Ask HKBH to help say the right things that will further inspire yourself and your daughter to do that which is correct.

IMHO you need to lay out the facts and let her decide. Say something like -

I hold 4 inches below the knee is required. But others hold differently. The skirt is definitely not assur but people may judge you.

In the end it's your choice. You can wear it, we can try to find a way to extend it (if that's possible) , or I can come with you to get something new. We can manage your problem. I trust you to make a sensible decision, but I'm here if you need my input.

FranticFrummie

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:31 pm

Can a ruffle be added to the bottom? Can the skirt be returned to the store in exchange for another style?

It may very well be that she had a growth spurt, and the skirt really wasn't that short on her when she bought it. Maybe she just held it up to her waist, and it looked long enough from the hanger. Give her some credit, she may not have been trying to "sneak it past you".

Daven that this should be the absolute worst fight you ever have with her.

Apologize for being so harsh, and try to find a solution together. Listen to her input, let her try to come to a conclusion that makes everyone happy, and you'll get a lot more cooperation from her.

"Parenting Teens With Love and Logic" is an amazing book. It improved my relationship with DD so much, and cut down on the small conflicts about 85%. Now I save my energy for things that are truly important, and DD feels much less stifled. The more I include her in decisions and consequences, the more she wants to be treated like an adult, and act like one.

amother

Denim

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:32 pm

sim wrote:

Thank you for your balanced advice. I can hear your voice of experience.

Can anyone please help me with the general issue of her constant complaints and criticism about us not having enough money? This is a new situation, she b"H has always had plenty of nice things (from her parents and grandparents), but she recently became friends with a peer group with much higher standards. She finds ways to complain constantly in a passive aggressive way, little digs, or tantrums. She complains about everything from not getting enough lessons (like art or gymnastics) to our home. She is very humiliating about it, her comments are always framed that we don't take good enough care of her. I am very triggered by this, and I need help navigating this with the right responses.

ellacoe

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:35 pm

Teen aged girls are a breed onto their own. They are trying to find their place in the world and navigate. If the norm in your home and her school is four inches there is nothing wrong with telling her that. It seems that her main concern is what she can wear for the school weekend that is trendy and cute. It is would be helpful if you could sympathize and validate her apprehension and concern. Perhaps then discuss with her what the different options are. Let her be part of the solution.

At a later point, you may want to address her anxiety over fitting in and keeping up with other people. But maybe for now just work with her to ease her stress on this particular topic.

amother

Plum

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:36 pm

OP, you sound like an amazing mother! it seems like you have a good relationship with your daughter, where you can talk openly with each other.
Your daughter sounds like a good frum girl who wants to do the right thing, she probably only bought the skirt in the end because you were not there to give your approval or lack of approval.
As far as the comment she made about not affording a new skirt, try your best to ignore it, teenagers blurt out hurtful comments in moments of frustration/anger.

If she has perfectly fine spring/summer outfits for shabbos there is no reason she cannot wear those to school shabbos. If she really has nothing new to wear beside that skirt, than I would say to just buy her a new skirt. She is a teenage girl after all. But perhaps put up boundaries such as "We will pay up to x amount of money" she can either buy something that price, or pay the difference.

amother

Ruby

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:40 pm

amother wrote:

Wow, accusing her of being harsh... with an even harsher response.

And in answer to the rest of your post - OP said the skirt is only half an inch below the knee - which would unlikely cover the knee when sitting down. So the 4-inch argument is kind of moot anyway.

amother

Papaya

Sun, May 06 2018, 5:43 pm

amother wrote:

She sounds like a typical teen. It must be hurtful but try not to let it get to you. Kids will say things because they're teens. I'm not excusing that, but many times they don't mean it; they're just going through their own challenges of teenhood. Let it go and try to ignore the hurtful things.
As for the skirt, I don't think it's fair to make her keep your chumras. Not everyone holds that a skirt has to be 4 inches below the knee. Pick your battles; I don't think this is worth it.