Invite guest you don't know well do you say cholov stam?

agreer

Tue, May 08 2018, 11:10 pm

OP, it's really so not a big deal to ask.

Friend: Hi OP, are you available to come for a meal on the first day of Shavuous?
OP: Wow, Friend. Thanks for inviting me. That's so nice, but we keep cholov yisroel, and I don't want to put you out of your way if you don't.
Friend: It's no prob. Everything will be cholov yisroel.
OP: Okay, thanks so much! See you then!

OR

Friend: Hi OP, are you available to come for a meal on the first day of Shavuous?
OP: Wow, Friend. Thanks for inviting me. That's so nice, but we keep cholov yisroel, and I don't want to put you out of your way if you don't.
Friend: Oh, we don't keep CY. WOuld you like to come for second day? It's a meat meal.
OP: Okay, thanks so much! See you then!

Really, so easy. Don't be afraid to ask.

heidi

Wed, May 09 2018, 6:32 am

amother wrote:

When I was an older teen I moved to New York to learn in a seminary for baalei teshuvos.
As it was a Chabad school (three cheers for Machon Chana!), I never been exposed to anyone who ate gebrokts on Pesach. (Chabad is extremely careful with gebrokts.) And then I started working in the broader community and a coworker invited me to join her for a meal at her aunt's house, so I accepted.

I was shocked when I arrived to find matzah crumbs on top of kugel and matzoh balls, and so on and so forth... It never crossed my mind to worry about that and the hostess never thought to ask. I was left with basically only matzah, though I did eat the soup (probably wasn't allowed, but wasn't halachically aware of the issue at the time), and I only ate the soup because the aunt made me feel guilty for not eating it... You see, my coworker forgot to mention that I was a vegetarian, as well, and that didn't go over well with the hostess.

I still have knots in my stomach when I think about it.

As a hostess, your job is absolutely to make the meal the most comfortable for your guests. That means honoring needs in regards to allergies AND kashrus, etc. Your guests will thank you. Wink

I completely disagree. When I invite someone for a meal I ask if they have any dietary restrictions. I do not offer my standards of kashrut for examination. If you want to tell me, go ahead. Otherwise, eat what is offered. And as a hostess, I would be really upset if a vegetarian showed up without letting me know her food limitations in advance.
When seminary/yeshiva students call to invite themselves I assume they are comfortable eating in my home. If they mention they hold differently for shmitta than we do, I apologize and tell them they wouldn't be comfortable eating in my home.
Obviously for family and close friends whose preferences we are aware of we buy only the things they are comfortable eating.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, May 09 2018, 7:43 am

amother wrote:

Excuse yourself because you were a teen.

A hostess can't anticipate things she may not even know about.

Its on you to track how your religious observance varies from the majority.

amother

Bronze

Wed, May 09 2018, 7:49 am

amother wrote:

Excuse yourself because you were a teen.

A hostess can't anticipate things she may not even know about.

Its on you to track how your religious observance varies from the majority.

How was she as a BT to know that her religious experience was anything but universal?

I don't agree with her that her hostess has the responsibility to conform her home to her guest's needs. This is beyond making sure there is a vegetarian dish or two.

This is a case of live and learn.

We wouldn't eat in a CS house, but I absolutely don't think my host has to conform her house to CY.

watergirl

Wed, May 09 2018, 7:56 am

amother wrote:

As a teen, its understandable that you made assumptions, but your last paragraph put the onus on the host. How can she honor needs that she doesnt know about? The coworker didnt mention the vegetarian need to the host, theres nothing for her to honor.

We once hosted a seder guest who was gluten intolerant. She was expecting us to provide spelt matza for her. I would have - but she didnt tell us!! There were a number of items that she couldnt eat and she was so mad that I didnt have enough for her. The meal had been set up by her brother-in-law who told me that he would bring matza for her. Not only did he not, but he himself ended up not coming! And yet she was mad at me. And I was clear that we eat gebroks when I spoke with her so that would have been a great opportunity for her to mention to me that she is gluten-free. She didnt, nor did anybody mention it when I asked about dietary issues. super weird.

watergirl

Wed, May 09 2018, 8:04 am

We keep CY, so I tell people when they invite us. If I invite others, I also tell them that we keep CY just so they know and dont have to feel weird about asking. I've had hosts actually back out on an invitation after hearing that we keep CY, which annoyed me. It was well before the meal and I knew for a fact that shopping/cooking hadnt been done yet. The cost was within a few dollars of Chalav stam where we lived. Like, the milk was another dollar more, the cheese was another dollar more, nothing massive. The hostess just simply said "sorry, we dont like the taste of CY stuff so we dont buy it" and that was that. Would a hostess back out on an invite when she hears someone is a vegetarian? Or needs GF food? I do find that CY seems to strike a nerve with some people.
My own sibling has ideological issues with CY and mocks me (I keep CY for shalom bayis, DH keeps it) and told me many times over the years that they would never accommodate CY for me or anyone else.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, May 09 2018, 8:07 am

amother wrote:

Well she learned that lesson at that meal!

Sadie

Wed, May 09 2018, 8:16 am

watergirl wrote:

Someone farther up said she doesn’t eat in CS homes- could it be your hostess thought that because you keep CY that you couldn’t eat by her, even if she bought CY for your visit?

greenfire

Wed, May 09 2018, 8:19 am

amother wrote:

I'm going to answer this as a mutt ... dealing with extremes can cause people to question what is really "kosher". marrying outside chabad was the first time I realized people ate cholov stam & gebrochts & were still frum. This alone was a reason for me to change ... Despite when I invite people over I always serve cholov yisrael - if lubavitch on paper goods - & I keep a non-gebrocht pesach ...

if one is diabetic you would tell your hostess, if one has allergies [think b u t t e r] you would mention same, if one has chumras nobody can guess

& you don't have to ask what they eat ... you mention what you eat [unless like me you are not going for food but for company]

amother

Bronze

Wed, May 09 2018, 9:19 am

Rachel Shira wrote:

I just wanted to clarify that we would eat parve or meat food cooked in parve or meat keilim in a CS stam house - just not cooked dairy. Just didn’t want people to think that it’s an overall kashrus or trust issue - it’s not, it’s just a chalav yisrael chumra issue.

I was told, years ago, that to drink coffee in a CS house, I would have to have the cup rinsed out with boiling water first or ask for a disposable cup. This isn't something I am comfortable asking.

Rather than risk insulting anyone, I just avoid the issue. Anyway, almost everyone keeps CY where I live, so the question comes up once every several years.

heidi

Wed, May 09 2018, 9:52 am

watergirl wrote:

No. We’d accepted the invitation. She literally said that they dont like the taste of CY dairy and they dont buy it.

I grew up way OOT and for the first 12 years of my life I thought chalav yisrael meant "spoiled"-- by the time the products got to our little village (where neighbors kept cy, not us) they were all at least half gone. I know what your hostess meant.

amother

Brown

Wed, May 09 2018, 10:10 am

If I invite guests for a dairy meal and they tell me that they are makpid on CY, I would tell them sorry, we'll have to reschedule for another time. It just costs too much more money. It is NOT only a dollar more, it is literally TWICE the price compared to the supermarket with my membership card, on milk cream cheese and sour cream. If your guests have a large family it becomes very expensive.
Plus, what would I do with the leftover milk? It has a bad taste imo.

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, May 09 2018, 10:25 am

amother wrote:

As I live in Israel I'm curious what the prices are for CS and CY products more or less. Are you living OOT or in a large central Jewish area?
Twice the price for CY is indeed a lot! B"H the very basic dairy products over here are the same price for mehadrin vs non-mehadrin produce.

SixOfWands

Wed, May 09 2018, 10:27 am

zaq wrote:

Not to mention some folks are lactose intolerant or have dairy allergy or are vegan. My policy is to ask any first-time guest at time of invitation if s/he has any food allergies or avoidances, and write them down for future reference. We’ve hosted people who are vegan; allergic to melons, mangos, eggs, bananas, chocolate and red food coloring; eat only Chassidish shechitah; eat nothing made with white flour, white rice, white sugar, or white potatoes; yadda yadda yadda. You’d think people would tell you at the outset but they don’t always remember. CY isn’t usually an issue because we rarely have guests for milchik meals, but Shavuot is of course an exception. Yes, the guest should volunteer the info, but the host should also ask.

A friend's teenage daughter once invited a friend for a 3-day chag. She asked her DD about food restrictions. None. Guest arrived. Doesn't eat onions or garlic. Literally EVERY dish she made for the 3 days had onions or garlic.

Then there was the time I invited a family where I knew that the mother and one child were vegans. I did my best. Then they decided that this once, they wanted to try meat. You can't win.