Invite guest you don't know well do you say cholov stam?

amother

Brown

Wed, May 09 2018, 10:58 am

I can get exact prices when I go do my shopping later, but the double pricing I absolutely noticed when I did my Erev pesach shopping. Now maybe they jack up the prices for pesach, but that's another story...

amother

Brunette

Wed, May 09 2018, 11:11 am

DD has a lot of friends who go to school near where we live, so there is a consonant flow to our house. The first time one of them came, she neglected to tell us she was vegan. She mentioned this just as I poured chicken drippings on the rice, which was (until then) one of two vegan things in the meal. The only thing left for her to eat was some roasted peppers. She kept saying it was fine but it made for an extremely uncomfortable meal, where every time a girl said something was yummy, or asked for more of something she felt badly.

By contrast, we around the same time had a couple over where the husband was allergic to almost everything. But I knew in advance and was able to work with it.

I think that in an ideal world, the guest would tell the host about any restrictions, but sometimes they think (mistakenly, in my opinion) that that is creating more problems than just keeping quiet and winging it at the meal. So, it's wise to ask. You can do it as one question "do you have any food issues, ether health or kashrus-wise?"

WhatFor

Wed, May 09 2018, 11:27 am

watergirl wrote:

As a teen, its understandable that you made assumptions, but your last paragraph put the onus on the host. How can she honor needs that she doesnt know about? The coworker didnt mention the vegetarian need to the host, theres nothing for her to honor.

We once hosted a seder guest who was gluten intolerant. She was expecting us to provide spelt matza for her. I would have - but she didnt tell us!! There were a number of items that she couldnt eat and she was so mad that I didnt have enough for her. The meal had been set up by her brother-in-law who told me that he would bring matza for her. Not only did he not, but he himself ended up not coming! And yet she was mad at me. And I was clear that we eat gebroks when I spoke with her so that would have been a great opportunity for her to mention to me that she is gluten-free. She didnt, nor did anybody mention it when I asked about dietary issues. super weird.

Just FYI, unless you meant gf oat matzah, she wasn't really gluten free. Spelt does have gluten in it, albeit less than wheat. I can't see someone who's truly for gluten free choosing to eat spelt matzah.

octopus

Wed, May 09 2018, 11:31 am

I would either ask the guests in advance if they eat cholov stam or just make everything c'y. Although even if making everything c'y I would probably tell them anyway in case they are makpid on keilim. If they can't come because of that, I would probably just make it a fleishig meal or not be offended at all. It's not something that is offense worthy imho.

Raisin

Wed, May 09 2018, 11:35 am

I prefer to know about any food restrictions but I am usually ok if not. Since I have a varied group of guests each week, I try and make sure some of the dishes are vegan (dips, some sides) and vegetarian. (everything except for meat and fish) If I do 2 sides I make sure one is gluten free. So I won't do orzo and a boreka, for example.

For a recent yom tov meal I had a last minute vegan. I hastily made a vegan main dish (for pesach so even harder) and it turned out she was allergic to the main component!

I would not tell someone they can't come after already inviting them. That is just rude. But, I guess inviting chalav yisrael guests for a shavuos meal might not be the best idea. In that case I would rearrange for another meal if I were the host.

Raisin

Wed, May 09 2018, 11:40 am

Also, I am sensitive to milk and our cy milk is definitely not spoiled! It lasts for a good week after I buy it in the fridge. Although one company has a weird taste so we get the other ones. Cheese in Europe is mostly all chalav yisrael - very little chalav stam hard cheese is even sold. The chalav yisrael butter I get is amazing - my friend who keeps chalav stam prefers it to the chalav stam butter.

There is not a great selection of yogurts and they are expensive but you don't cook much with yogurt.

Ruchel

Wed, May 09 2018, 11:59 am

I didn't even think of the price of a full CY Shavuos. Yeah, I'd reschedule. I can't imagine each item being CY - and I live in a place it's not expensive. But still, high qualityCY will be expensive.

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, May 09 2018, 12:26 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

A friend's teenage daughter once invited a friend for a 3-day chag. She asked her DD about food restrictions. None. Guest arrived. Doesn't eat onions or garlic. Literally EVERY dish she made for the 3 days had onions or garlic.

Then there was the time I invited a family where I knew that the mother and one child were vegans. I did my best. Then they decided that this once, they wanted to try meat. You can't win.

Now you got me curious! Did the friend eat the food with garlic and onion? Did she notice?

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, May 09 2018, 12:29 pm

Iymnok wrote:

We are makpid in keilim due to changes in the industry since Rav Moshe's psak was issued. If we ever go visit my parents, we may buy them a couple new pots.
But I wouldn’t assume that a Shavuos invite is a dairy seuda, so I might not ask.

I would like to know what changes you are referring to (as I know the food industry is extremely complex today)

TIA

SixOfWands

Wed, May 09 2018, 12:33 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Now you got me curious! Did the friend eat the food with garlic and onion? Did she notice?

My friend frantically prepared more food without garlic or onion to accommodate the guest. It was a FODMAP diet, so while the guest wouldn't have an anaphylactic reaction, it would make he uncomfortable.

watergirl

Wed, May 09 2018, 12:41 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I guess it depends on what you made. Ours is cheaper than any other chag. I replace the meat main with a dairy main and everything else is the same or cheaper. Does anyone do all 4 meals dairy? We do one or two. But still no chicken for soup, one main with cheese ( like fettuccine Alfredo, lasagna, not both at the same meal). Kugels are the same price. The same $20ish I’d spend on chicken for the meal, I’ll spend on the cheese and dessert. Sides are always pareve for me. Wheres the extra money coming in? Ok add an extra $20 for a cheesecake maybe. Still not a ton more.

Raisin

Wed, May 09 2018, 12:45 pm

I guess if the host is the type to cook and bake in advance a chalav yisrael (or other food restriction guest) could be difficult.

Honestly, even though I serve dairy on shavuos I also assume some of my guests will not want to eat high fat high carb pasta dishes and make salmon or other fish and a salad.

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, May 09 2018, 12:47 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Your friend must be a true tzadika. IMO it's too much asking for a 3 day YT without staples like garlic/onion.

SixOfWands

Wed, May 09 2018, 12:48 pm

watergirl wrote:

Yes, all meals will be dairy or parve.

watergirl

Wed, May 09 2018, 12:53 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Yes, all meals will be dairy or parve.

Yum! But I’m still not seeing how that would be so much more expensive than meat. Even if CY. And even more - every item on the table has dairy in it? Ruchel said each item. I’d love that but I cant imagine doing it!

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, May 09 2018, 1:00 pm

watergirl wrote:

20USD for a cheese cake, is that a store bought one or cost of ingredients for a home made one?

watergirl

Wed, May 09 2018, 1:03 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

20USD for a cheese cake, is that a store bought one or cost of ingredients for a home made one?

About what it costs to make it home made, give or take a few dollars.

Ruchel

Wed, May 09 2018, 1:18 pm

watergirl wrote:

I guess it depends on what you made.

Of course. But between the dairy products bought ready made and cheaper as CS, the stuff I would cook that would be done already and would need to be re-made CY... I would absolutely expect a person to tell me, just like I alwaysssss tell people my needs (unless I don't mind eating from whatever is there) my needs. We buy plenty nice things for Shavuos, and as much as possible CS, and then there's the CY that is subpar compared to some peopel's CY standards and who consider it not really CY... yeah, no, not possible.

watergirl

Wed, May 09 2018, 1:21 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I hear.

amother

Mint

Wed, May 09 2018, 1:41 pm

amother wrote:

Please let your guest know.
We were invited out a regular Shabbat lunch in the summer. We assumed it would be meat.
They served dairy, chalav Stam. We eat only Chalav Yisrael. We literally only ate challah.

You may want to ask a sheila on this.

Given that cy is a chumra and embarrassing someone is d'oraisa you may be told if it happens again to eat the food.

Not saying you did anything wrong, but there is for sure a question here on the right thing to do.