Its about time | Imamother

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 6:06 am

Who cares????

I don't care if my name wasn't on the wedding invites of my children or the bar mitzvah of my son.
yes, "Mr. J. xxxx verayato mibeis xxxx" was written: meaning, Mr. ..... verayato is another way of saying his wife, and mibeis xxx- her maiden surname.

Some invites don't have mibeis xxxx

Some invites don't have verayato, but Mr. Rxxxx vebeiso.

Really, I don't care - I'm happy to b'H be at the simcha and enjoy it.
All the nitty-gritty bits/arguments just add unecessary stress.

Anyway, WHO scans the wording of the invite with eagle eyes???

Seems to me only the feminists, who raise an uproar at anything connected to women. Not only the wife's first name missing on the invitation.

And the poster who mentioned that the wife's name is omitted and she does most of the work for the wedding: would you REALLY want your husband to do the bride's and bridesmaids gowns choosing and shopping? Choose the bridal flowers and accessories and table centerpieces, color of tablecloths and napkins? The menu? e.t.c e.t.c

I wouldn't. I'm happy if my husband does the picking up and PAYING.

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 6:19 am

amother wrote:

Mr. and Mrs. seem like a team.

Jon and his wife seem less team like. Spitting hairs.

In English (old school) if the Mr. passes away the invitation would come from Mrs. John Smith. What would be in hebrew?

I like your - spitting hairs - it made me laugh LOL

To answer your question: if Mrs. Doe's husband has unfortunately passed away:
I've noticed on wedding invites (Hebrew side) living in Israel I rarely receive a bi-lingual wedding invitation, it's usually only in Hebrew, so I see Mrs. -wife's initial- Doe, e.g. Mrs. L. Doe, and in smaller letters underneath - wife of Mr. John Doe z"l.

chmom

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 6:43 am

amother wrote:

You know what? I care! These are children of two married people who are raising these children together and I cannot understand why one of them must be obliterated in the invitations. It is disrespectful and says a lot about the way the role of women is perceived.
Let’s try leaving out the husband’s names in invitations and see what happens. Do you think that would be acceptable in any way shape or form to the men?

Iymnok

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 7:23 am

I have a very unique name. I like that it’s nit printed everywhere. DH’s uncommon name is just fine for me.
We get;
Harav John Doe umishpachto
Harav John Doe
Harav Doe
Mishpachat Doe
Harav Doe v'raayato
Harav v'harabbanit Doe

I really don’t like the big deal people make over it. It’s silly.
It’s a formal title.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 8:26 am

B'chasdei Hashem, my DH and I recently were able to provide the funds for a talmid chacham to be able to publish his sefer. As such as were given the first couple of pages to dedicate the sefer to departed loved ones and to honor our living relatives and the author also acknowledged our help in publishing the sefer by thanking "DH(full Hebrew name) V'raayaso".
We were sent a proof of those pages to review and approve.
I didn't approve.
I asked for my name to be added.
And he did.

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 8:54 am

chmom wrote:

I care! If I'm getting an invitation to a classmates child's wedding, why do I have to use a magnifying glass to figure out who this is (I figure it out from the back- the grandparents listed) . This is particularly frustrating if my friend has a common name like Schwartz, for example.

LovesHashem

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 8:58 am

chmom wrote:

Rebetzin Rochel and Husband.
Yeah that would go over fine and swell.

soap suds

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 9:10 am

chmom wrote:

Disagree with the bolded. That perception is in your head. It's like when people insist that the reason men won't shake women's hands is because they think women are dirty or whatever. For whatever reason women's names are omitted, it's NOT because they are disrespected.

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 9:12 am

On a public forum there are many diverse opinions which is normal.

So, on public forums esp. as large as imamother, it should be that all the members - agree to disagree- BUT, in a respectful manner.

I don't mind that my name is not on invitations of our simchas, be'H.

I honestly respect those whom it does bother that they're private name is omitted.

Every person/family lives their life as they choose. And that shld be respected.

In short - "live and let live."

Smile

chmom

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 9:15 am

soap suds wrote:

So then what IS the reason? Why not give both names?
You know what? Semantics matter and if a woman is only defined as „wife of“ that says something about how her role is perceived
I really cannot see any one good halachik reason for leaving out her name

farm

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 9:45 am

I care! Just like when I walk into a seforim store and all the latest kid books have only boys as the main and supporting characters, I notice and I care (and I'm disgusted. So I head to the library or Barnes and Noble instead)!
I cannot think of a single reason why a wedding or bar mitzva invitation would not name each parent somewhere on the invitation. The only possible explanation is a warped tznius thing. Go ahead and teach me otherwise please.

LovesHashem

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 9:52 am

chmom wrote:

History.
Why do you take your DH's last name and not keep yours?
It's an old practice that no one ever changed. It's not like people ae BIDAVKA leaving the woman's name out.

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 9:54 am

chmom wrote:

Honestly, I think it's just an old-fashioned kind of a thing, the same way we are used to Mr. and Mrs. John Doe, but if it were introduced today we wouldn't like it at all. It's just the way it's been done in the past, and nobody cared enough to change it, at least that's what I think.

Which doesn't mean it doesn't bother me - it does.

LovesHashem

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 9:56 am

farm wrote:

See my last post. About books Ami's past few comics have had girls in them.
Teenage GIRLS. shock

The BY times series written AGES ago had teenage girls on the cover. shock

It's not impossible to find.

farm

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 10:16 am

Ther is no historical precedent to omit the mother'sne on the hebrew part of the invitation. Emily Post style is for the english part.
Lol regarding BY Times- you proved my point. This is a new fangled warped tznius chumra mishugas. We used to be reasonable. Olameinu and Jewish Observer had no problem with women pictures. But now we are so much holier 😇

amother

Lime

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 10:20 am

amother wrote:

Agree. Each family does what they want. (I can't even conceive why it makes me a 'feminist' to see my name on an invitation for a simcha that I've partially funded, and done most of the logistics for... to me thats just 'rational'.).

amother

Olive

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 10:32 am

farm wrote:

I have no idea what you're talking about... the seforim stores I walk into have boys and girls equally... The adult books usually don't have any people on the cover, but if they do - I haven't seen more boys than girls.
The children's books usually have one of each. Even the very frum yiddish ones like "Malky and Yossele"

amother

Olive

Thu, Jun 07 2018, 10:38 am

And about the invitations, who cares?? It's just the old fashioned, formal way of doing it. Like people spell honor with a u (honour) on the invitation - even though they're not English Smile

And it's definitely not a tznius thing, because otherwise, it wouldn't say the kallah's name, right? But it does. And usually, from what I've seen, if the husband was niftar they write "Mrs. Chava Schwartz" and under it in small letters "eishes R' Zalman Schwartz z"l "
(what's this Harav John Doe business?? Dancing

)

I've also seen, when the parent's are divorced, it said the fathers name and underneath it the mother's name.
The above are done in special situations (widow, divorced) to make sure everyone feels comfortable, but in general, it's just the old fashioned formal way... (by us anyway, I'm chassidish)

Usually we see "R' Zalman Schwartz UBB" which I assume means Ubnei beiso - basically "and family"

ETA: and when we get invitations, it's usually addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. Zalman Schwartz" or "Mr. and Mrs. Zalman Schwartz and family" .