Do we owe our teens a "fun summer"?

Bnei Berak 10

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 9:42 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Are you talking about the tuition committee? They say send to camp, but then they say it's a luxury? I'm just trying to clarify what you mean.

I think that in most large Jewish communities, if 99% of the girls are going to camp, then it becomes a necessity. For better or for worse.(Not that I agree with it, but that's just how it became).

What bothers me even more is that camps are getting more and more over the top. They are charging more and more money for a better "experience". And the kids (and the parents) feel pressured to go along. What's wrong with just playing ball and having fun? Rolling Eyes

This. IMO it needs to be curbed or the sky will be the limit.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 9:56 am

Hi, it's the Op. I appreciate that you all took the time to respond.

Unfortunately, reading the many different responses and opinions here does not leave me feeling empowered to help my daughter. I've felt a lot of judgment and assumptions, that I haven't validated my daughter's disappointment, or that I need to be told multiple times not to burden her with caring for her siblings, or that I don't know to spend quality time or outings with my daughter.

Sometimes, a mother knows to do all those things, and her daughter is still concentrating on anger and comparing herself to friends. I need help with that, not tips on how to correct my behavior because I must be depriving or burdening my daughter in some way.

For those suggesting that I work out a plan for my daughter to pay half from her babysitting money to go to camp, her money is already budgeted for her many outings with friends, and some savings for her future. She is busy during the winter with school and friends whose parents pay all their sleepaway camp expenses, I know she would feel resentful about paying part of her way (beyond spending/canteen money).

The constant suggestions that sleep away camp is a necessity to raise a healthy daughter does nothing to assuage my guilt or reassure me that my daughter won't be on imamother one day complaining about how deprived she was growing up.

I'm surprised how long this thread has become, and I am going to bale out now. Thank you again for taking time to respond, and hatzlacha to everyone, and I bless you all with ample means to provide your children with everything they need.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:04 am

Chayalle wrote:

I think it's really insensitive of you to decide that needing to fit in with peers does not qualify a teen as "needing camp", when you then go on to discuss how your parents were able to afford to pay for camp for you, and you were even able to make a travel camp happen.

Or as it says in Pirkei Avos - Al Tadin es Chavercha ad Shetagia LimKomoh.

I agree with not giving kids everything just because you can afford it.

I actually do understand because I'm not in a position to do the same for my kids. BH we don't struggle but everything these days is so much more expensive than it was even 10 or 15 years ago so even a nice salary just doesn't go as far. And the percentage by which camp costs have gone up is outrageous. I loved camp and I very much want my kids to experience it, but they're going to have to either save up for it or forgo it. I do feel very bad about it, but I'm not going to spend money I don't have to send them to camp. Encouragement to work for it, yes, sympathy if it doesn't work out, yes, but not going into debt over peers.

amother

Brown

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:24 am

I completely understand OP's position and I know how hard it is to not feel guilty as a mother when you know your daughter is miserable. During years in which we can not afford camp for a particular child (and it depends on the year - sometimes we can swing it financially and sometimes we can't, and sometimes the kids needs to take turns because we can't send them all every year), I spend the extra $$ for my DD to go to a local night camp 2-3 nights a week. It really gives them something to look forward to after a hard day's work and helps them make friends with other teens who are home for the summer, even if they are not their usual group of friends. It's still an expense, but costs a whole lot less than sleepaway camp and I find it really makes a difference in making the summer more "fun."

If you are interested but there is no teen night camp available where you live, another option is to do a rotating night camp with other mothers whose daughters are home. Let me know if you want more info.

Chayalle

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:25 am

amother wrote:

Experiencing this as a parent is different than experiencing it yourself.

amother

Smokey

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:30 am

I went to sleep away camp twice as a camper. But I never went to day camp. We did mommy camp every other summer. So my parents saved to be able to afford those two summers.
I don't think sleep away camp is a necessity. Yes I enjoyed it. But necessary? No. The summers I didnt go I took classes, learned a new skill, or did a long project. I also worked. It was productive and fun!
No reason we need to infantilize our kids, boys or girls. Boys have many jobs available to them- tutoring, shadowing a boy in day camp, boy counselors... I know people who want to hire make babysitters as they only have boys and/or it would be a yichud issue (only child, 10 year old boy etc).

Merrymom

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:30 am

My memories of summer as a teen were mostly miserable. I spent all year sitting at a desk and then all summer stuck taking care of little children. The pitiful salary was not really worth it, but it was better than doing nothing at all. At least when summer was over, my parents always took us away for a few nights to have a small vacation.

Now that I'm a parent of teens there are two things that I believe in. 1) I believe a child that never works grows up feeling both helpless and entitled. They need a job to learn the value of money and to deal with adults and difficult situations. This is called life experience and is very important.

2) The entire summer should not be devoted to a job unless your teen is doing this along with friends and loves it. You as a family should have a full schedule planned for the summer. Even if you're working and have a large family kay"h as I do, there are lots of fun activities you can plan. I even did this in years when we had almost no money to spare, I just found free or very cheap options. The beach for example, is something that we don't take advantage enough of and the entire family enjoys. Go closer to evening and you won't have all the tznius issues to deal with.

Summer is short, make the most of it!

crust

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:36 am

amother wrote:

I am sorry OP that you felt judged and criticised to the point of leaving this thread.
The picture I got from your OP was that your daughter was left without even one friend for an entire summer. I, as an adult and even as an introvert would not enjoy being without anyone my age for such a long time. And here we are talking about a child.

We can make mistakes as parents but we can at least admit them and start thinking of how to not repeat them.

I am sorry that you have an image that everyone that sends their kids to camp had the means to do so. No. It is not a breeze to almost anyone I know.

BTW There are organizations that help parents pay for children's camp.

As adults, we need to be able to see the broader picture sometimes because, in the big scheme of things, the struggle with money is not the thing that you want your daughter to remember.

amother

Blue

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:43 am

I apologize that you felt judged by my suggestion that your validate your daughter. I was definitely not assuming that you aren't doing that. I was just answering your thread title- I believe that is all you owe her as a parent.

I understand that parenting involves painful choices. Sometimes there not much we can do except daven that Hashem make those choices a little less painful. We don't know how each decision will affect our children, but we just try our best. And hope that our children will understand, as mature adults one day, that we worked within our personal constraints and really did try to parent then well.

crust

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:43 am

LovesHashem wrote:

You could say the say thing about standards in simchos, schoolbags, clothing, WHERE DOES IT END? You cannot spend money you DON'T HAVE, that in itself is awful chinuch.

If you don't have the money it's a luxury. And if you have a healthy happy home and a great attitude it IS good chinuch. Your DD will learn you need to be responsbile, Hashem gives people different things and if mom is happy she will see she can be happy too!

You are right but it does not have to start by singling out a teenage girl. Let the parents start by moving to a place where there are no established standards.
It is not right to use your child as ammunition for change.

Chayalle

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:52 am

amother wrote:

OP, not every teen situation has an easy solution that can empower the parent. Even validating your daughter's disappointment, spending quality and fun time with her, and giving her free time for herself without her siblings, might not make up for her not being in camp if all of her friends are.

Does this mean that you owe her to go into debt, etc...to send her to camp? No, it does not. And just like she is living with her feelings of sadness and possible resentment, you might be living with corresponding feelings of a parent as well. And not every situation has a great and easy remedy - you know, just do this, and everything will be honky dory.

I don't know that sleepaway camp is necessary to raise a healthy daughter; I consider myself to be a healthy adult, and I never went to sleepaway camp (and I wanted to, very badly...and likely had some similarities to your daughter, and going just didn't happen for me). As a mother, I do choose to send my girls to camp, because we often want for our kids what we ourselves didn't have, and because I've heard enough out there to consider it not a luxury, not a necessity, but something valuable to my girls' upbringing.

Some of us suggested what we suggested just in case it could possibly happen for your DD (getting a cheaper camp, getting a scholarship, her working to contribute....) If all these don't work for you, then they don't work for you. She will have to work with her reality, you will have to accept yours, everyone will do their best, and life will go on.

I'm sorry if the reality is sad for you, and hope you can all get past it and have enjoyable, happy times as well.

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 11:11 am

amother wrote:

No, they have no jobs available for them. Counselors? Were you following the "paying the counselors" thread? Where does a 14 year old boy get a job as a tutor or as a shadow? Not in my world. And when my boys are old enough to babysit, they come home after 10. So they can't babysit.

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 11:15 am

Chayalle wrote:

I agree with this. Not every problem has an easy solution. Sometimes kids are just upset, and sometimes the parents are just upset. As much as we would love to take away every single bit of pain from our children, life happens, and it's just not always possible.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 11:23 am

Chayalle wrote:

I never went to sleep away camp, and I am also a healthy adult. My kids hated day camp because it is too regimented, so we always did camp mom. They went to sleep away camp once and never wanted to go back. They liked it but was not thrilled.

My teens choose to get jobs not in camps. There are jobs out there if the kids are resourceful. There are also other friends in the same situation. My teens meet up with friends after work if they aren't working together. With texting, the kids are in touch constantly.

I can't understand sending your kids to sleepaway camp if you can't pay your basic bills. I simply don't understand having a teen work to contribute to the family of the family is not making it.

LovesHashem

Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:09 pm

crust wrote:

Ammunition for change?! I'm not trying to make a worldwide change, I'm trying to have a sane and financial smart home, and teach my DD those things too.

I could care less about what you do with your DD. If you want to teach her you should spend money on standards even if it will put you in debt, go right ahead.

I will NOT teach such ideas to my DD.
I want her to learn responsibility, how to manage money, and how to deal with things when life doesn't give you what you want all the time. I don't want her to put herself into debt for luxuries and standards and such shtus and neither would I dream of doing that for myself!

It's beyond silly to me to drive yourself into debt for standards.
Living in a place with no standards? Why don't you just go live on a mountain? Someone will ALWAYS have more than you, be better than you, go somewhere you don't, can't or won't go to.