Was today a turning point?

shiaeisen

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 2:55 pm

ssspectacular wrote:

I'm afraid that it wasn't a coincidence that the report came out on Fri, just 2 days before the summit. And for those who are devastated about Trump's actions, please tell us what you would have liked him to say or do. Should he have smacked him in the face? Should they have had a fistfight in front of the world?
Please answer this question. I really want to know.

You’re so right. Had he publicly shamed Putin, like these liberal dummies want, they’d be screaming that he just endangered the US and is pushing us towards war by bullying Russia ! You can’t win with these dishonest, hypocritical liberals.

shiaeisen

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 2:58 pm

Jeanette wrote:

Let's assume for a second that everything you say is true.

Obama sold out the US to Iran.

Well, he was routed. His party was routed. Iranian puppets no longer control the US government. The Iran deal is shredded. Halleluka!

So now, having driven the Iranian puppets from government, we will now turn it over to.... Russian puppets? And it's all good, because "Obama did it too"?

“Let’s ASSUME?!”what she said is absolutely true, and he did it in the dead of night, wth a cargo plane and unmarked bills! He not only handed them $140 billion dollars, but he thereby endangered us, and more so Israel!

shiaeisen

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 3:00 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

I can't see Obama that way. There's no love lost but I can't speak about him with such language.

And as far as who our friends are...come on. Really? Of course we have to have hakaras hatov - for many of us, it's two words: Supreme Court. And of course, Rubashkin. Among other things - but please, al tivtechu b'nedivim....

If we're going to learn from 2000 years of galus. Not to mention plain old true bitachon in the One Power who affects everything. We still have the mitzvah of not giving credence to elohim acheirim: that means ascribing power to anything and anyone besides Hashem.

So you don’t believe Obama’s an anti Semite and anti Israel? Are you aware that he abstained from voting (in essence agreeing with the anti Israel UN resolution) in the UN at the end of his presidency? That he insulted Bibi in the White House on numerous occasions? That his first foreign trip was to Egypt, never to Israel?

shiaeisen

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 3:09 pm

Jeanette wrote:

United States was not and is not at the point of "going to war" with Russia over their election hacking. However, their hacking was an attack on our country.

All Trump had to say was, "We have strong evidence that your country attacked the integrity of our elections. That was unacceptable." That would have been sufficient to send a message to America and the world that the American president looks out for American interests. ( And really, what else do you expect from the leader of a country ?)

Instead he chose to show weakness and utterly capitulate to Putin. He made the United States look weak on the world stage.

Wow!!!! Such great advice!!! I’m “sure” if Trump had only said “Cut it out,” to Putin (like obama “courageously” did), all the Trump Derangement syndrome-suffering liberals would be singing Trump’s praises now, right? I think you should apply for a job as advisor to the pres. You seem to know it all. Lol

JoyInTheMorning

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 3:22 pm

shiaeisen wrote:

I don't believe Obama was or is an anti-Semite. He appointed Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court and nominated Merrick Garland, both Jewish, and not only Jewish, but traditional. (Elena Kagan had her Bat Mitzvah at Lincoln Square Synagogue, a Modern Orthodox Synagogue.)

Obama did visit Israel. He visited the Kotel. He visited Yad Vashem and wrote a much more meaningful message than Trump.

Trump wrote: "It is a great honor to be here with all of my friends – so amazing + will never forget."
All about him, nothing substantive about the meaning of Yad Vashem. He could have been at the baseball hall of fame.

Obama wrote: "I am grateful to Yad Vashem and all of those responsible for this remarkable institution. At a time of great peril and promise, war and strife, we are blessed to have such a powerful reminder of man’s potential for great evil, but also our own capacity to rise up from tragedy and remake our world. Let our children come here, and know their history, so that they can add their voices to proclaim ‘never again.’ And may we remember those who perished, not only as victims, but also as individuals who hoped and loved and dreamed like us, and who have become symbols of the human spirit."

I don't believe Obama was anti Israel. He funded the Iron Dome, which protected Israelis during the war with Gaza. Trump moved the Embassy. I'll take the Iron Dome, which saved Israeli lives, over a symbolic moving of the Embassy, which doesn't change anything, any day.

I didn't agree with everything Obama did. I think he was wrong to instruct Kerry to abstain from that UN resolution. However, I don't think it means he was anti Israel. I do think he believed that this would encourage a two-state solution. I am not opposed to a two-state solution, if it is properly done, but even if I opposed a two-state solution (I used to oppose it, but I've changed my mind because I don't think any alternative is tenable) I don't think that people who support a two-state solution are anti Semitic.

SixOfWands

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 3:28 pm

shiaeisen wrote:

You mean because I don’t agree with your Trump derangement syndrome?

"Trump Derangement Syndrome" Noun. A demeaning term used by supporters of 45 to belittle the factual arguments interposed by anyone with the temerity to oppose anything said or done by 45, particularly when such supporters lack any reasoned or logical response to such fact-based arguments. Supporters of 45 use the term in a bullying manner similar to that used by 45 when he concocts nasty nicknames for his opponents on Twitter. See also, "Snowflake," "Emails."

Fox

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 5:38 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

You know, I'm all in favor of being nice, and I try not to rely too heavily on accusations of TDS.

But let's remember some of the things that have occurred on Imamother, let alone in the larger public sphere:

* Equating frum Jewish women with the KKK.

* Accusing frum Jewish women of being racist based on their Presidential vote.

* Going on lengthy tirades against individual posters.

* Constantly mocking the opinions and intelligence of Trump voters.

* Comparing U.S. policies with the Holocaust.

* Questioning the sanity of those who disagree politically.

* Expressing the wish to commit acts of violence against whose who disagree politically.

* Repeatedly accusing frum Jewish women of "not caring" about whatever the outrage of the day is.

* Interjecting sarcasm into every discussion, even between posters who are participating in good faith.

Personally, I would prefer to believe in the existence of Trump Derangement Syndrome. It provides a clinical explanation for the above behaviors and tolerance thereof. I don't really want to think about the possibility that there are people out there who really mean it when they accuse me of being a KKK sympathizer or claim they'd like to rip my fingernails out.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 6:44 pm

shiaeisen wrote:

Are you old enough to remember the MBC song Mr. Carter? And the reaction of gedolim, that it's not politic to say that? And that was Carter. Obama's up there but not quite.
Say what he did, but don't call names. Speak in more measured tones, I say.

simcha2

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 6:52 pm

Fox wrote:

You realise these ask apply to the other side too. (If you replace kkk with self hating Jew/anti semite, and racist with stupid -So open minded their brains fell out - is one of my favorite lines).

Fox

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 7:11 pm

simcha2 wrote:

You realise these ask apply to the other side too. (If you replace kkk with self hating Jew/anti semite, and racist with stupid -So open minded their brains fell out - is one of my favorite lines).

I would urge you to go back through the political threads and actually make a count. I've done this myself on several occasions.

Actually, count not only the number of times that really horrific comparisons are made but also count the affirming responses or disapprovals.

In this thread, a poster more-or-less gently called out a poster for going too far in slamming liberals. I have yet to see anyone in this thread suggest that comparing frum Jewish women to the KKK is anything but business as usual.

On a similar thread recently, a poster made the same comparison and staunchly defended it. Again, silence.

But like I said, count the actual posts. There's a reason the #WalkAway Campaign and organizations like TPUSA are getting so much attention.

simcha2

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 7:15 pm

Fox wrote:

I respectfully (strongly) disagree with your assessment. I'm in a meeting, on a phone, so can't give this the time it deserves, but I think that bias is playing a role. Pointing out a comment by David duke is not calling anyone a member of the kkk. Insulting language is insulting language.

Jeanette

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 7:22 pm

simcha2 wrote:

Hint: It doesn't deserve much.

We are facing serious problems as a country. Problems that certain posters either cannot or refuse to see and claim that anyone who feels threatened by them must be suffering from paranoia or derangement. So be it. As I've said in previous threads, I don't take internet warriors seriously. Yes, it is somewhat hurtful to be called a threat to children or to claim I don't care about children in Israel. I mean, just come on. But nothing that anyone says on Imamother compares to the fact that we have a compromised president running the country. Yes, I'm alarmed.

Fox

Tue, Jul 17 2018, 10:09 pm

simcha2 wrote:

"Pointing out a comment by David Duke"?

Um, no. How about telling Imamothers they're "in good company" with David Duke? There is no way to give that a benign interpretation.

Confirmation bias is precisely why I urge you to do a count rather than believe me. Though if you consider telling people that they're in good company with David Duke to be a case of "pointing out" his remarks, then I suppose you'll find very little to object to.