The Surrendered Wife: What's the deal on it?

mommy201

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:01 pm

amother wrote:

Re the bolded. So what DO you do when you husband is point blank not fixing the leaking roof? Are you happy knowing you cannot take care of it yourself? When my roof is leaking and it's only (ONLY) his job to get it fixed, I'm not sure it's going to help to tell me to "look inward." But I guess if that makes you happy..... me, I just want DH to call the dang repairman.

It’s okay to ask your husband to do things it’s just how it’s done and how everything else is with relinquishing control. And it just so happens that if you do follow the book, you’ll have the tools to know how to ask your husband in such a situation and it’s pretty likely that he will do it on his own.

Again I read “to relinquish control” not “the surrendered wife” . I happen to like the Jewish title better 😀

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 9:00 pm

amother wrote:

This is untrue bec some women got married and did not take control but wanted to let theur dhs make the important decisions, take care of the finances....and treat him like a king.

What happened was that these wives of these dhs who are lazy good for nothings realized that these dhs are NOT PAYING BILLS BUT SPENDING MONEY ON TAKEOUT ETC...is out of a job every month bec they dont get to work in time...are not fixing anything around the house bec they are lazy....IT TURNS OUT THESE DHS WILL NOT CHANGE UNLESS THEY CHAnge their natural habit of laziness/lack of ambition. This forces the wife TO TAKE CONTROL OF MOST THINGS BEC THESE "LAZY BUMS" DID NOT TAKE CONTROL WHEN THESE WIVES GAVE THEM THE OPPURTUNITY WHEN MARRIAGE STARTED!!!

The cause was not" the woman taking control" and effect__ "the man is now lazy"
NO ITS THE OPPOSITE!! cause "(the man has oppurtunity to take control of....) man is lazy and therefore doesnt take control"
Effect is "wife is forced to take control"

The book is only for women who started off taking control such that their dhs COULDNT TAKE CONTROL BEC OF THEIR WIVES' NEED TO BE IN CONTROL. NOT THE OTHER WAY AroUND!! So, if the dh was never given an oppurtunity to be in control, this is a book for them. But, if wives gave dhs oppurtunity to take control and they did things like bouncs checks, not pay bills, forget to give school forms in ...then this book iz not for them bec the dhs will drive them into debt , leave them with shutoffs....

U seem to be in A LOT of pain so first I wanna send you a hug. Hug

In answer to your comment, being in control doesn't mean I take responsibility! Being in control can be reminding & nagging or telling the husband HOW to do what needs to be done etc. There are very many ways a wife can be controlling while she thinks she is totally not!

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 9:15 pm

For all those who didn't read the book, I would suggest you stop commenting cuz you really seem stupid LOL. How can you possibly argue over something you don't even know about. No where in the book does she tell you that you turn into your husbands slave or shmatta or that the husband controls you! It's about communicating in the right context & your husband TAKING CARE OF YOU, NOT CONTROLLING YOU!! When you are a surrendered wife you become the queen in the house. You can just sit back relax & enjoy!

About the curse from adam & chava, why would a woman wanna take on the curse of both? Just like your husband can't take over childbirth from you, y would you attempt to take upon urselves his curse?!!? This is just my personal opinion.. I really dont get it!!

pause

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 9:18 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you for being so blunt.

amother

Tan

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 9:26 pm

amother wrote:

Just controlling your household.

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:02 pm

I've never read the book (hope this doesn't make me sound stupid!) but the premise makes a lot of sense to me. Think of "control" as micromanaging. Micromanaging someone will damage the relationship. I catch myself micromanaging my husband (and kids) more often than I would like to admit, and when I make a conscious effort to step back, there is a very apparent positive effect.

I can't speak for any of the nitty gritty, but I do think this is something anyone in a relationship can benefit from practicing.

amother

Tan

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 11:10 pm

pause wrote:

Which sometimes inadvertently and unknowingly leads to controlling other members of the household.

But even if not, this book can help you figure out how to get what you want in your relationship, how to take care of yourself, how best to get your DH's cooperation and admiration.

actually what I meant was - in response to 'its not about giving the man control over his wife'... its not. its giving the man control over his household.

I'm not knocking the book. I've read the book. I was asking a poster earlier to describe the kind of awesome marriage this book is designed to create. You answered it - a house where the woman sits back and is the queen. Personally that's not my goal. (but the book isn't for me regardless. I'm not the woman described by the author.).

amother

Mistyrose

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 11:42 pm

amother wrote:

So please explain how it works in the book. It is DH's job to run the finances. But he's doing an awful job and bouncing checks and ruining our credit. Please explain where I go from there. Thanks.

I dont think the financial part of the book should be applied in these cases. It may be that the ideas shouldnt be applied in general to this relationship. Its worth reading to see if other areas can be implemented.
talking to myslef too!!

4pom

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 11:51 pm

iluvy wrote:

I'm basing this on the book The Moon's Lost Light, and this part of the book is based on the Vilna Gaon's teachings on ikvisa d'meshicha.

She says that he taught that in the period before Mashiach, the curses will weaken and the world will start to become more ideal, like the time before the chet.

We can see this happening in many dimensions. For example, men no longer slave in the fields to earn a living, women only have labor pains if they want to, they very rarely die in childbirth (though it does happen r"l)

And... men no longer rule households in Western society b"H... unless their wives read this book and decide that's what they want :shrug:

I have a big headache and dont have the ability to pontificate or finish reading this thread - but I would like to comment that these ideas quoted above are somewhat of a distortion of the book the “moons lost light!”!
I dont believe the author would back much of what you expressed in this thread.

ETA: I actually see there are definite marriages where this book doesnt apply. Definite stages in marriage this book doesnt apply. And definite ways the book and ideas can me misunderstood and dangerous. However, for healthy people IMHO it is wonderful, empowering and can make marriages better.
( I agree the title is provocative and distasteful)

Last edited by 4pom on Wed, Jul 25 2018, 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Wine

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 1:18 am

amother wrote:

Only want to add that Surrendered Wife is probably not for wives of men with ADHD. I tried to implement some of the philosophy, and it was disastrous. But I do like her point that I'm responsible for my own happiness, and therefore should focus my energies on that, instead of trying to fix DH (or, in my case, managing his inability to function and remembering to do all of the things he forgets).

Yes, yes, yes! My dh has mild ADHD, and if I don't nag some of the time, literally nothing would get done - dh gets too distracted.

I still think it's worthwhile to read the book. What do you have to lose - fifteen dollars and a few hours of your time? There are some chapters that are relevant to everyone- focusing on gratitude, learning to stay on your own page, at least for minor things, and I'm sure there are some more things I can't remember off hand ...

I would never give an ADHD husband full charge of the money, though. BTDT- the results were disastrous. So don't do it!

amother

Wine

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 1:32 am

amother wrote:

There are plenty of books/articles where I find stuff I don't agree with, but I will not read this book (or more importantly, I hope my husband and sons never do) because I think some things are dangerous. Just like I wouldn't read a book by a Gazan justifying launching rockets on Israel (not that I'm comparing her book to terrorism).

Some examples I've heard (again- I have not read this, so it's possible I may be misunderstanding) is you give total control to your husband over certain aspects of marital life and the marital home. Say finances and repairs. So even if he's a lazy good for nothing and isn't calling a roof repair guy, you may not say anything or hint anything, just smile insipidly at him for being your dear dear dh. The roof can cave in, he can bounce every check, but you just have to smile and take it because if you say something, he might feel bad.

I'm sure she doesn't discuss that exact scenario in her book, but that is its logical conclusion.
Now I get the whole -don't critize, don't take control over every aspect of the marriage, let him do his thing, respect him- blah blah- and I agree with it. Just it seems like she takes it to a whole 'nother level of extremism.

I agree that there is a level of extremism that I can't buy into.

I read the book, followed some things she said, and watched as dh bounced checks, didn't call the plumber... So that part didn't work for me.

But... I think certain parts of the book were helpful, it just took time for me to figure out what they were.

Also, I have a good friend who swears this book saved her marriage. She's been going from therapist to therapist for years until she started implementing the ideas from this book. And she's literally a different person, and her marriage went from on-the-verge-of-divorce to mostly happy.

So my take on this is - it helps some but not all.

amother

Pewter

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 1:33 am

amother wrote:

I didnt see that anyone here wants Adam's curse of backbreaking labor.
Women want to maintain the right to control, and being in control was never a curse! Rather, it was Chava's curse that she be controlled. It is not a good thing, it's a bad thing. Something that hopefully will soon be gone from the world.

Also, I don't see what's so enjoyable about being a queen if the king makes all the decisions. The only good thing might be living a life of material luxury. But your regular woman is not a wealthy queen - she will probably still need to make dinner, scrub the toilets, help with parnassa.

So what exactly does a modern woman gain out of being 'queen'? Freedom from stress? Freedom from making decisions? That is a very dangerous freedom indeed, and ultimately no freedom at all. Freedom means YOU choose. Freedom from control?

In any case, it seems that this whole ideology is a lot of semantics. It seems women are encouraged to get the dh to do what they want by reframing it, positing themselves as needy creatures who rely on dh to do such and such. In other words, nothing new here. The surrendered woman also is controlling, only in a much more manipulative way (dh, I would feel so taken care of if you could please do this). This seems to me to take a lot more effort than the straightforward option.

amother

Seashell

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 5:32 am

amother wrote:

When woman takes charge of finances she is kinda taking over Adam's curse!

By being the queen you are getting your desires fulfilled in a fulfilling way! You dont fight over it! Your dh doesn't feel resentful. I can't imagine y you wouldn't wanna be taken care of! Your still taking care of your kids/household. You just get an opportunity to live with a lot less stress..
Y would it take more effort? You def see better results using her method vs the usual way..
Again, as long as you didn't read the book it is silly to comment. You argue over things that are not from the book but assumptions you made from hearing half ideas...

SuperWify

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 7:35 am

amother wrote:

I think you the stupid narrow minded one. FTR I read the book. That being said, some parts helped me but some parts made things worse. See upthread.

Yes, it’s an incredible concept that can help lots of marriages. But please keep in mind that there is no one size fits all when it comes to marriage.

BTW you also sound very old fashioned. What’s wrong with a woman working on here career that she enjoys and makes a nice parnassa, while her DH acts as the SAHD?

Mommyg8

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 10:01 am

amother wrote:

I have heard that R' Chaim Kanievsky has advised people that the wife handling the finances is a segulah for parnasah... I don't mean this in the kabbalistic sense, I mean that when the wife is in charge the money seems to stretch further... at least thats what I heard.

amother

Seashell

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 10:32 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

It says that the husband is the conduit for parnasah between hashem & wife. By the wife receiving from her husband it is ultimately bringing bracha into the home but it is still thru the husband.. u can look up a source for this in the book marriage secrets.

das

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 11:38 am

SuperWify wrote:

Reb. Halbershtam said that story. I heard it too. It’s nice, but no thanks I hate when DH gives me his opinion on what to wear and what color to paint the walls. I’m the woman of the House after all, give me that at least!! Instead of asking a man who has zero sense of fashion- should I buy this material for the dress or that one?- I buy the material I want, make the dress and then try it in just for him and say, “is this pretty?”
99% of the time his face lights up and he says, “you look gorgeous darling!” I think he’s a lot happier when I leave him out of the feminine decisions.

When I heard that story I too was baffled.

I think I said this before and I’ll say it again- I was also told by my kallah teacher to treat my DH like a king I did and ended up a shmatte. Not the queen she promised. There was a lot of damage control tears and fights to repair that. That all being said no where in the book does it say to make your DH a entitled king.

Amother, I agree that story is just plain ridiculous. But this has nothing to do with the book AT ALL. and superwify, the book prevents this type of thing, actually. She is very into saying, "I can't" without excusing yourself and NOT making yourself into a shmatte.

Mommyg8

Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:10 pm

amother wrote:

If the source is kabbalistic, I would certainly not take it literally. I know many women who handle the finances in the home (myself included) and we're doing just fine. Look, if it works for you, great, but it's definitely not halacha, and there's lots of room for individual couples to do what works for them.

I did like some of the other things in the book though. And I like the third title the best, somehow the title "The Surrendered Wife" does not sit too well with me. I am certainly not a surrendered wife, nor do I have any plans to ever be one. " The Empowered Wife" sounds better.