The Surrendered Wife: What's the deal on it?

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 8:45 am

amother wrote:

I haven't read the book, so I can't comment on the contents. But I also would not want to read it.
At least as far as I'm concerned, my marriage is okay and "if it works, don't fix it."

I had great marriage! Lots of love, respect, & understanding, & a friend told me to read it (I personally have the attitude there's always room for growth) & boy am I greatful! It took my marriage to great new level!! Y would you want to be in an okay marriage? It's so rewarding to be in a great one! The choice is really yours but why would you settle for mediocre?

imasoftov

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 9:19 am

amother wrote:

#handmaidstale

So I was looking up the Rambam about a wife washing her husband's feet (Ishut 21:3), but I'm posting about it here because that also reminded me if Gilead - just like Wives are assigned Marthas to do the household work, Rambam writes that while there are some household tasks that a woman does not have to do if she has female slaves (e.g. grind flour, bake bread, laundry), she still has to wash her husband's face, hands, and feet (whether he washes the rest himself or no one does not is not specified), mix his wine (wine used to be served mixed with water), and make his bed. A poor woman, like an Econowife, has to do it all herself.

pause

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 9:57 am

SuperWify wrote:

The Surrendered wife sounds just awful.

I have the Empowered wife and I think that title says a lot more.

Some parts in the book are extremely helpful- self care, (learning to take charge of my own happiness and not relying on dh) respect (agreeing with him ect however, even this advice is a bit dangerous. A wife is allowed her opinion) ect and some were a downright fail- telling DH to take care of finances - guess what? He prefers we do it together. Or if he says let’s go out for dinner and she said if DH says to do/buy something that costs a lot allow him to because as the the man of the house he’s well aware of what he can it can’t afford- well, well many times DH has no concept of over our budget ect.

The concepts in all her books are the same. They're presented differently and with different stories and examples. But they're all the same. I only read "First Kill All the Marriage Counselors" and she writes literally everything you wrote here in your post.

So, ladies, get over yourselves. The title is just a title, and if you read the book and its contents, you may learn something helpful.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:24 am

Rachel Shira wrote:

I don’t understand why people get so hung up on the fact that there are things in her books that don’t jive with them. Isn’t that with everything? Whenever I read something, there are things I agree with and things I don’t. I don’t feel the need to disregard an entire book because of a concept or two I’d rather not put into practice.
Read the book and see for yourself what you like about it. I also don’t get the fear mongering about it being antithetical to yiddishkeit. I didn’t find that at all.

There are plenty of books/articles where I find stuff I don't agree with, but I will not read this book (or more importantly, I hope my husband and sons never do) because I think some things are dangerous. Just like I wouldn't read a book by a Gazan justifying launching rockets on Israel (not that I'm comparing her book to terrorism).

Some examples I've heard (again- I have not read this, so it's possible I may be misunderstanding) is you give total control to your husband over certain aspects of marital life and the marital home. Say finances and repairs. So even if he's a lazy good for nothing and isn't calling a roof repair guy, you may not say anything or hint anything, just smile insipidly at him for being your dear dear dh. The roof can cave in, he can bounce every check, but you just have to smile and take it because if you say something, he might feel bad.

I'm sure she doesn't discuss that exact scenario in her book, but that is its logical conclusion.
Now I get the whole -don't critize, don't take control over every aspect of the marriage, let him do his thing, respect him- blah blah- and I agree with it. Just it seems like she takes it to a whole 'nother level of extremism.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:33 am

Also, I heard a shiur by a lady (don't remember her name, but she is a well-known speaker in Lakewood with a British accent) whose speech to us sounded very "surrendered."
She gave a true story account of a woman in LA who owns some kind of sewing store who personified this approach. This woman was obviously an expert in all things sewing and would advise her customers using her sewing expertise. But whenever her husband was around to help out in the store, she intentionally pretended to be NOT the expert and that her husband (who actually knows nothing about sewing), was. She gave this example: Customer walks in and asks - should I buy pattern XYZ or ABC? Woman store owner: You know, that is a great question. I don't really know! Why don't I ask my husband? Then she and the customer make a show of going to the husband together and she kind of coaches him into the giving the right answer. This shows how much she respects her husband, and ladies, you too should do the same. He not only knows everything, he knows everything even in areas for which you are the clear expert. She literally said this.
So I say #nothanks and #thankgoodnessI'mnotsurrendered

And then you have threads where the wife does everything under the sun- works 3 jobs, shops, cleans, does homework, takes kids to doc, while husband relaxes and expects to be served by the shmata pregnant wife who is up all night with crying babies and out all day at her 3 jobs. I see a correlation to the surrendered approach and entitled men. If men are the BEST and SMARTEST at everything, well by golly we should serve them too. Do you not wonder how those men of those threads came to such a despicable entitled attitudes?

Rachel Shira

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:34 am

amother wrote:

As I said in my previous posts about her books, I also find some things to be a bit much for me. But I still found it to be a valuable book.
Maybe I’m just a big reader and enjoy reading books in general even if they don’t become my “bible,” so I don’t need or want to think through the risk vs. benefit of each book before I decide to read it. Personally that would drive me crazy. And for those books that have things that I don’t agree with, I don’t consider them to be dangerous. But everyone can of course choose to read or not read whatever books they want.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:37 am

Rachel Shira wrote:

But yet there are certain books you just won't read. Like a book justifying terrorism or denying the Holocaust, to use extreme examples.

The ideas in this book are distasteful to many, therefore they won't read it, even if they don't intend for it to be "their bible."

Rachel Shira

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:39 am

amother wrote:

I guess I just literally don’t see any level of parallel between a book about justifying terrorism and Laura Doyle’s books, not even allowing for the fact that you said that’s an extreme example.
To each her own.

amother

Tan

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:39 am

pause wrote:

I actually think the title is a good summary of the content of the book. Surrender yourself to the idea that the man runs the show. Surrender yourself to the idea that you can't control your man. Surrender yourself to the idea that you are in control of your own happiness. Surrender yourself to the idea that you are a helpmate.

Its not a 'tips and tricks' to a better marriage - its a philosophy. It sets up what is ideal - and shows you how to get there. The most controversial matter is the finances bit - while sure it builds up the husband to have brunt of the responsibility of the money (and that is one of the goals of the book - confident man = happy marriage), it basically allows for the possibility of complete (avoidable) ruin.. and building back up isn't always possible.

There are many models of how a marriage can work well. This is only one.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:41 am

Rachel Shira wrote:

There is no parallel to terrorism in her book. I'm saying just like you wouldn't read a book that is distasteful to you (like, for example, a book on terrorism), so too others will not read this book. You were wondering why people can't just read it anyway and take out the good nuggets she has in there. Answer: because the entire idea of the book is distasteful.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:43 am

amother wrote:

So I ask. Roof needs repair, but the man runs the show. But he's not running the show and the roof is threatening to cave in. But since he runs the show, I am not allowed to call the roof repair guy on my own. Did I get that right? So I have to just sit and watch the roof fall further and further into disrepair?
I'm glad to not be surrendered.

SuperWify

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:45 am

amother wrote:

Reb. Halbershtam said that story. I heard it too. It’s nice, but no thanks I hate when DH gives me his opinion on what to wear and what color to paint the walls. I’m the woman of the House after all, give me that at least!! Instead of asking a man who has zero sense of fashion- should I buy this material for the dress or that one?- I buy the material I want, make the dress and then try it in just for him and say, “is this pretty?”
99% of the time his face lights up and he says, “you look gorgeous darling!” I think he’s a lot happier when I leave him out of the feminine decisions.

When I heard that story I too was baffled.

I think I said this before and I’ll say it again- I was also told by my kallah teacher to treat my DH like a king I did and ended up a shmatte. Not the queen she promised. There was a lot of damage control tears and fights to repair that. That all being said no where in the book does it say to make your DH a entitled king.

Rachel Shira

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:46 am

amother wrote:

I understood what you meant. For me, I can’t find what is so distasteful about the book that I wouldn’t even pick it up and read it to see for myself. As I said. To each her own.
And for those thinking that I’m a “surrendered wife” - do you want to know what I practically have applied from the book? To say “whatever you think” instead of “whatever you want.” That’s it. That’s the one tiny nugget I found helpful for myself on a daily basis.

SuperWify

Tue, Jul 24 2018, 10:49 am

amother wrote:

Hey and regarding this point- yes it’s extremely difficult to wait for DH to pay the rent and change the lightbulb.

So I told myself- the money and insurance ect his department. I gave him the bills though I still remind him (I don’t nag) occasionally. Example yesterday we were pulled over and slammed a $130 fine because DH didn’t get his car registered. Im very proud to say I kept my mouth shut. DH sure learned his lesson without me screaming.
But- I’m much better than him at changing lightbulbs and hanging up pictures. So I do it. And if it’s something I can’t do I say, “DH can you do this or should I call a handyman?” Usually he says handyman 😆