Coming to Shul to talk

amother

Goldenrod

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 2:44 am

Do we all have only one thing in our lives that bothers us? So what if OP is running several threads on pet peeves? Isn't Imamother the "safe space" for women to vent? If it serves to make people think twice about certain annoying things they do, then that's got be a win-win for everyone!

Debbie

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 3:21 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I heard that the reason Hitler didn't get to the Sephardic Jews was because they don't talk in shul.

I was told something similar,and then I went on a Jewish history trip to Poland and learned that thousands of Sefardim were also murdered by the Nazis.
They had many years (probaby centuries)earlier, been trying to get from their home countries to Eretz Yisrael and had lost their way, they ended up settling in Europe and suffered the same fate as the Ashkenzim.
We can all speculate as to why the Holocaust happened,but I've yet to come across a better answer than the one the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave when he was asked,he simply said "I don't know."

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 4:22 am

Im sorry but are you people kidding, the ones who are saying things about why sfardim were not killed by hitler?
There is no way that any mortal person can know why hitler got to some countries and not the others. I think it is extremely condescending to say such things. Because of course all or most ashkenazi shuls have talkers. I never heard something so awful, really)

OP, I like the idea of starting your own minyan.
Why not ask other women if they agree with you. And ask men as well.
Maybe have a lecture or something, about this, and you speak out about it.

saw50st8

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 7:23 am

amother wrote:

I suppose the rav had nevuah. Btw, I suppose during the Spanish inquisition the sephardim did talk in shul? C'mon, why oh why do people actually believe they understand the ways of hashem?

My grandmother's family left Spain during the Inquisition and went to Germany, where many perished in the Holocaust. I guess they talked a lot in shul Rolling Eyes

ra_mom

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 7:39 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I heard this from a big Rav, I didn't just make this up. I'll try to track down the source.

His name must be Yosef Mizrahi. And he must have gotten direct ruach hakodesh straight from the source.

happyone

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 8:22 am

My belief is that God accepts our prayers (even in our own words ) in a shul, on a train, on a noisy bus, on the beach , in a bathtub etc... I'd love to know a source to prayers not being accepted where people talk. We are only responsible for our own actions.

EmpireState

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 9:30 am

I have found that staring at the offending talkers works. Other than that, can you approach your shul Rabbi after services and ask him to approach these women?
As far as scare tactics (that others' prayers don't count when people talk), I would keep that to yourself.
Good luck. Sorry that some anonymous amothers called you out on your venting. Not too nice...

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 9:45 am

Unfortunately, talking in shul is a sticky problem. Is there room in your shul for another minyan? A lot of places have an earlier (quieter) minyan. And I agree - don't mention your beliefs about other people's prayers not being answered. It isn't going to convince anyone.

amother

Babypink

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 9:55 am

I hear you Op and have a similar situation.
I sit in a spot not near the talking.
I tell myself they don't know better, are doing the best they can, and its not my business and they certainly don't want mussar. You said your rabbi already tried.
I take it as a challenge to concentrate harder on my tefilos to block it out.
I do move seats when necessary though I try to be very unobtrusive about it.
vahavta leracha kamocha - I take it as a message to strengthen my ahavas chinam when mightily or slightly irritated.
Though I sometimes daven at home much prefer to daven in shul for many reasons.
I do make it clear that I don't answer when chatted to with a smile and shrug and have said at different times when possible as warmly as possible "lets talk after at the kiddish"
people don't mind at all and are happy to do it
just set an example
and do your best

we can only control and work on ourselves

hatzlocha

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 10:06 am

amother wrote:

And it's also very interesting that you have few posts to your name and are only registered 5 days.

Is your point to incite everyone to spill all their anger beans, for some odd reason?

U are being so nasty to op, this is why some ppl like to post anonymously which im doing and clearly u did.

Also talking in shul is a big aveira.

pause

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 10:38 am

I reported posts which use the amother feature to attack someone.

OP is new here. Give her a chance. She's posting using her screen name so you can PM her if you are sincere.

I hope Yael takes action against posters who abuse the amother feature. It's gotten way too out of hand, and there must be repercussions for anonymous bullies.

watergirl

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 10:58 am

pause wrote:

I edited anon bullying. Thanks.

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 11:04 am

Leriem wrote:

I just wrote that after trying the other options, they didn’t work out. I’m stuck with this Shul and want to know how to make the best of it. The distraction though is a problem and I even get angry at the people doing it.

It sounds like there are other options, they're just less convenient for you. I think this is the kind of thing where you have to choose between different imperfect choices.

SixOfWands

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 11:08 am

saw50st8 wrote:

My grandmother's family left Spain during the Inquisition and went to Germany, where many perished in the Holocaust. I guess they talked a lot in shul Rolling Eyes

My husband's family was apparently hanging with Saw's family in Spain, but when Saw's family went north, DH's family took a right somewhere around France, and wound up in Romania. They lost a lot of people in the Holocaust.

Of course, I have to say, people in Reform Temples almost NEVER talk during services. I guess they're the only folks Hashem listens to.

chmom

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 11:20 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I heard that the reason Hitler didn't get to the Sephardic Jews was because they don't talk in shul.

Which doesn’t explain why almost all the jews in Greece were killed. They were Sefardim
Those explanations are simplistic and I really don’t care for them

SuperWify

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 11:29 am

chmom wrote:

Which doesn’t explain why almost all the jews in Greece were killed. They were Sefardim
Those explanations are simplistic and I really don’t care for them

Of topic but I though to point this out here-

Lots of Sephardic Jews suffered as well.

Practically all Greek and Roman where sent to camps and killed.

The nazis came to parts of Morocco and Tunisia also.

They where about to come to Israel and Syria but at the last minute turned around.

I’m sure to many more countries but I don’t know.

There is a video on project witness about Sephardic Jews in the holocaust.

perquacky

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 1:54 pm

This has been a problem in almost every shul I've davened in. When I was a kid, our shul had "shushers," people who would walk around shushing the talkers. In my current shul, in an attempt to keep the volume down, our rabbi has ruled that there are certain parts of the davening in which absolutely no talking is allowed. Kriyat hatorah, kaddish, and the tefilot for Medinat Yisrael. It seems to be working. I think the goal is to extend the no-talking times until the entire davening is silent.

What actually bugs me more are the women who come to shul and sit outside to talk. They never go into the building at all. I do think that shul should be a social experience as well as a religious and emotional one, but why bother coming to shul at all if you're not going to daven even one bit? And these women do not have small children they need to watch.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 5:08 pm

pause wrote:

I honestly did not think I was bullying but the mods had a different view so I apologize op. Agree a PM would have been a better idea.

Really there are only a few options for you

1. Change shuls (you've ruled that out)
2. Daven at home (already mentioned)
3. Start a new Shul as suggested above
4. Try to change the culture of the shul yourself (eg shushing people, difficult to pull off and can just backfire)
5. Enlist the rabbi's help to change the culture
6. Decide to change yourself and not let it bother you anymore. This too is extremely difficult

Personally I think 5 or 6 are the best options. 5 could really improve the shul but could be considered as disrespectful to the rabbi. In relation to 6 I think that if you could pull it off that one act would kind of balance out all of the aveiros of talking by other people.

amother

Teal

Thu, Jul 26 2018, 5:16 pm

perquacky wrote:

Because you've come to sit and talk.

(some what related, my favorite part of going to shul is the walk to and fro with dh. I'm not a great davener).