Work clothes vs "the outfit"

amother

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 3:44 am

amother wrote:

You know it was for exactly this kind of narrow-mindedness that I became less religious. I'm still religious but I don't wear the uniform any more. I refuse to be judged from the outside - surely it's my neshama that's the most important thing.

OP, your husband is a good man and is doing the right thing by going out to work regardless of what the "community" think. If it would make you feel more comfortable then I agree with the lady who suggested the white shirt on top of his t-shirt.

If you think the topic of this thread is narrow-minded then the one being narrow minded is YOU
my husband dresses conservative but wears colored shirts.(mostly shades of blue and has one or two striped blue and white shirts
I don't think its so terrible but I'm planning that when he finds a new job (he is not happy where he is and is looking) that he should start off and follow through with only wearing white shirts.

He did once get flack from someone for wearing a jacket that wasn't typical charidi and for wearing a coloured polo neck sweater, and yes I was put off and turned off by the guy with the big mouth, however for me to discredit the whole concept of a chareidi dress code because of that silly man would be narrow-minded on my part.

amother

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 4:20 am

amother wrote:

If you think the topic of this thread is narrow-minded then the one being narrow minded is YOU

amother, I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment - I wasn't suggesting that the OP was narrowminded, I'm pleased that they are trying to find a solution to the situation - what I was saying was that a person shouldn't be judged - whatever level of frumkeit they hold to - because of their mode of dress - both the religious and non-religious are guilty of this and it's such a shame, there could be so much more harmony and peace in this world if people were accepted for who they are inside and not judged by the covering.

amother

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 7:11 am

would you mind explaining what you mean by "judged"?

I mean lets take an extreme example: a kid from a chassidish home, wearing 2 earings in his ear, spiked up hair, gothic makeup....

now should we not assume he has gone off the derech? are we wrong for making that judgement.

ok so that example is extreme, but the truth is that clothes maketh a man(is that a real quote or did I just make it up? Confused

)

the way you dress often does depict the level you are at. So if your skirts are only just borderline, versus someone who is covered adequately, then yes the tznius level of the longer skirt girl is on a higher level. (providing she is tznius in all aspects)
note: I said her "tznius level" is higher. I didn't say the whole of her is.
But the way you dress does show how strong you are in certain areas.

I think people need to face reality rather then blaming others for judging them.
I'm NOT denying it happens.
I've been there, done that. I know the judgemental types and I don't much care for them or their tznius, but for my own sake I decided to bypass them and not pay attention.

While I was focused on the fact that people are judging me, I couldn't move forward and my religiosity was affected.
As soon as I decided to focus on the people that inspired me and the chassidim that I hold to be true and real, I could move forward and grow.
My husband wears colored shirts.
Is he chassidish? Yes
can he grow and be better and more chassidish? Yes. he will be the first to admit that

so my point in all this is that you need to hold yourself responsible for your religiosity and no one else. I'm basically refering to the comment made earlier

Quote:

You know it was for exactly this kind of narrow-mindedness that I became less religious.

also clarissa that comment about eating in peoples houses was made sarcasticaly I think - not to be taken seriously.

amother because of the personal information I gave

amother

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 7:26 am

I think this is getting to be slightly off-topic now but I just wanted to make one final comment, if I may, about being "judged".

I live in a very mixed charedi/modern orthodox community. Here you will see all types of "outfit" - long, short, head coverings, bare heads, black coats, t-shirts, etc, etc.

I had a very personal conversation once with a woman in my community. She told me that she dressed the way she did (long skirts and covered hair) to "fit in" but that she didn't go to the mikvah. I was shocked. I think one assumes that if someone dresses in a certain "outfit" they personify that way of living and it isn't often the case - we shouldn't assume that because a person is dressed in a certain way they are one thing or another.

I think the comment about "earrings and spiked hair" is a little extreme but dressing in a colored shirt should not mean that a man is any less frum than a man who wears a colored shirt - that's what I was referring to when I said "narrowmindedness".

amother

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 11:32 am

[quote="amother"]You know it was for exactly this kind of narrow-mindedness that I became less religious. I'm still religious but I don't wear the uniform any more. I refuse to be judged from the outside - surely it's my neshama that's the most important thing.
Tammy/sue strikes again. women dont have "the uniform"
I'm seriously getting sick and tired of this.

Clarissa

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 11:39 am

[quote="amother"]

amother wrote:

You know it was for exactly this kind of narrow-mindedness that I became less religious. I'm still religious but I don't wear the uniform any more. I refuse to be judged from the outside - surely it's my neshama that's the most important thing.
Tammy/sue strikes again. women dont have "the uniform"
I'm seriously getting sick and tired of this.

Yes, I'm sure that's T/S! She's here everywhere. You'd better sign off now, she's watching everything you say and you can't trust her. In fact, is that her at your door? Peeking in your window? Pull down the shades, sit very still, don't answer the phone because she might call you. She could be anyone, anywhere!

Anyone know where I can get a tinfoil hat?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin-foil_hat

amother

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 11:45 am

You don't call head covering, long sleeves, stockings, and long skirts a "uniform"? I do. It certainly gives a message to the person standing opposite and in Israel that also means a political statement too.

As a businesswoman I don't need someone to "judge" me before they meet me or know who I am and what I'm about. Like it or not amother that's exactly what happens. Of course if you live in a enclosed neighbourhood and never venture far outside then you'll not really understand what I'm talking about - not that I'm suggesting you do but I'm trying to understand your comments.

Let's just agree to differ instead of all trying to bash me or each other about it. It's getting to the point on this site that no-one is entitled to their say or view without getting constantly criticized for it.

amother

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 11:49 am

Quote:

You know Clarissa you are so immature. I am not who you think I am. I am simply someone who has an opinion that happens to differ from YOURS. Why bash me for it? Is this not a democracy that we live in? My comments to OP have been totally misconstrued and I'm fed up having to try and explain what I was trying to express.

amother

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 11:50 am

DefyGravity wrote:

Many people dress differently for work than they do at home. Look at doctors, sanitation workers, clowns, flight attendents, etc.

People that possess common sense should understand that certain clothing is needed for certain jobs and shouldn't be judgemental about the work outfit.

Finally a sensible comment - thank you.

Clarissa

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 12:00 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

Did I miss something in your comment? Or did you actually bring the famous Tammy Sue into this for some unknown reason?

I was actually not saying anything about your opinion, I was responding to your comment itself.

And yes, I am very immature. Nobody will dispute that, especially not me.

He*Sings*To*Me

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 12:03 pm

amother wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

Finally a sensible comment - thank you.

Twizzlers

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 12:20 pm

just fyi, my father employs frum men who do "get dirty" as they work; shipping and packing stuff in a warehouse. and having nothing to do with white shirts, they usually arrive to work in a nice pressed button down shirt, change to a t-shirt or sweatshirt to work in, and change shirts before they leave for the day. its so easy for a man to change a shirt; he's wearing an undershirt and tzitzis anyway, technically he just needs a quiet corner to make a quick switcheroo.

gold21

Wed, Nov 21 2007, 12:25 pm

1. forget tammy/sue. that whole sitch is like so yesterday. just dont bring up tammy/sue and her possible 47 other multiple personalities anymore. I am so bored of hearing about this person, who is like so not my speed, and whom I have no patience discussing

2. can you like not post as amother so much, amothers? right now imamother posters are pretty suspicious of each other, due to a recent not-worth-mentioning situation. so like post under your own name if u want to be taken seriously. dontcha think? seriously, what are you scared of? why cant you just post under your own freakin screen name? ok if youre gonna go post "I have a creepy crawly yeast infection" or "lets discuss my relations life" then yeah be anonymous. but otherwise? get lives amothers.