Aliexpress kosher sheitels, whats the hechsher?

Iymnok

Fri, Aug 24 2018, 2:44 am

mirror wrote:

The women are donating their hair for Avoda Zara. However the loophole is that the barbers are not cutting the hair for the sake of Avoda Zara. The barbers are cutting the hair so they can get paid. Thank the barbers for your sheitel.

It’s not a loophole, it’s understanding what is AZ and what isn’t. Is the haircuts ritual or is the lack of hair part of the worship?
Is the "salon" in the temple or is it anywhere?
Those who have gone to investigate have often gotten their information through more than one translation. So the terminology is of and likely misunderstood.

I was at one time told it’s muttar due to sfeik sfeika.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 12:25 am

The topic has come up again with Rabbanim this past year because new research indicates that the tonsuring (hair shaving ceremony) is a sacrifice to the deity and the hair is most likely tikrovas avoda zora. There has been a lot of new data showing that the reason behind the tonsuring is to sacrifice the hair to an idol and that is why Rav Moshe Shternbuch came out strongly again this year against the human hair wigs. Rav Shternbuch sent a shliach to India again just a few months ago and this shliach came back with very strong video footage showing how pilgrims, barbers and priests all consider the head shaving in India a total sacrifice to the deity.

Since it is impossible to determine where all the hair in a wig originates from and most of the hair is coming from India (there just isnt any other source for high quality human hair like the tonsuring in India)- there is always a concern that Indian hair is being used in a human hair wig
The only way to be safe with this issue is to wear completely synthetic (but even that one has to be careful with as they often mix human hair with synthetic hair) or a cloth head covering. Rav Shternbuch wrote in his weekly newsletter that a lot of the Indian hair is relabeled "European" or "Brazilian" etc.. and that unless the hair is watched completely from the time of the actual cutting of the hair until the final wig product its not possible to know what hair is in the wig. Since most of the time hair sellers dont see the actual cutting of the womens hair most of the human hair wigs today are problematic

amother

Aqua

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 2:02 am

Hi,

I wrote an article for Mishpacha about a year ago about buying a shaitel on Ali. Since then I've had 2 people contacting me asking me about their hechsher.

My Rav holds that shaitel's don't need a hechsher, so these women went and asked their own shaila's and each got the same p'sak as me from their Ravs. One asked Rabbinical board of She'eris Yisroel the other asked R' Morgenstern (I'm not familiar with either).

Don't be afraid to ask your LOR is my suggestion.
'

amother

Smokey

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 9:23 am

This topic is really complicated

I actually personally know some of the people that were interviewed for Ami magazine and the radio show Headlines about the tonsuring/Indian hair. There is definitely a lot of wrong info circulating about the meaning behind the tonsuring and new research is indicating that halachically the Indian hair might be very problematic

There are Rabbanim that are matir the hair (some though unfortunately based on the wrong info about the tonsuring/head shaving in india) and there are Rabbanim that recently reviewed all the new research about the tonsuring and feel that halachically the hair is very problematic (as Rav Elyashiv stated 14 years ago- and he never changed his mind about the status of the Indian hair). The info that Rav Dunner found 14 years ago actually matches what was found this year and based on that info Rav Elyashiv (and other Rabbanim) ruled that the hair is complelely forbidden. So its not such a simple topic. One should ask a Rav they feel researched all the new material and is familiar with the topic

About wigs made in China- one should be aware that most of todays wigs are manufactured in China and they are notorious for being dishonest. They are also the biggest importer of indian human hair and they often mix the indian hair with some chinese hair - the Indian hair is genetically the most similar to european hair and is the most abundant and affordable. Chinese hair is thick and not suited for the frum market - which prefers hair that is european looking that can be easily curled (which chinese hair cant do well). So the Chinese mix the hair and relabel the wigs "European" or "South American" and they will sow on any label (including a "kosher" label) as long as they get paid to do so

Mommyg8

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 9:33 am

Again, Rabbi Belsky paskened that these shaitels are ok. If you follow his psak, then you're fine.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 10:13 am

One should be aware that there is a dispute about the information found 14 years ago.
Rav Shternbuch sent a shliach to India again this year specifically to find out what is the truth behind the tonsuring. The shliach was there for over two weeks and came back with very strong videos showing info about the tonsuring that contradicts what was found 14 years ago

The reason why Rabbanim are coming out now again about the Indian hair situation is because currect research done this year shows how the info found 14 years ago was most probably inaccurate. That is why one should ask a Rav that has reviewed all the current research so the psak is based on the correct info about the tonsuring.

For example there is an important religious legend behind the tonsuring that is currently very widespread and given as a main reason behind the tonsuring. The Shliach from Rav Shternbuch came back two months ago with many videos of pilgrims, barbers and priests quoting this legend as the reason for the tonsuring. This legend clearly depicts the tonsuring as a sacrifice to the deity. 14 years ago the Rabbanim didnt even know about the legend. All this new info has just recently surfaced

amother

Smokey

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 10:16 am

A Litvish Rav in the US that I think looked in to the new material is Rav Heineman of the Star K

Rav Moshe Kessler and Rav Neiman from Vishnitz really researched the issue and reviewed all the material and publicly came out against all the human hair wigs. There have even been asifas in various chassidish communities recently about the topic

Mommyg8

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 10:24 am

amother wrote:

If the Chassidish Rabbanim came out against human hair shaitels, then this applies to the Chassidish world.

Those of us who follow Rabbi Belsky's psak are ok. Which has nothing to do with a "litvishe" Rav looking into this topic.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 11:04 am

As I stated previously Rav Belsky gave his psak 14 years ago

There was new extensive research done recently (this year) that shows clearly that there was a lot of misunderstanding at that time of what the tonsuring actually means.
This is why Rav Shternbuch sent a shliach again to India this year- to check again what is really going on there. And the new info is currently being reviewed by many Rabbanim here and in Israel.
This is why if women are concerned about the issue- it makes sense to ask a Rav who has reviewed the current new info and is aware of what was found this year about the tonsuring in india

amother

Smokey

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 11:10 am

Also there is much more indian hair today in the wigs than there was 14 years ago.

Every year the amount of pilgrims tonsuring just keeps getting larger and larger- there are about 40,000 pilgrims that tonsure in Tirumala every day! Thats millions of people a year sacrificing their hair to the deity every year.
And all this hair is sold to the wig and hair extension industry. The Indian hair is considered high quality and is used in many of the nice wigs (although there is plenty of non remy hair from the temples too that is shipped to China and used in lower end wigs)

penguin

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 5:37 pm

If you have amazon prime, watch the video "Just Extensions".

ra_mom

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 5:45 pm

Hello happysmile1, masquerading as amother smokey on this thread! Wave

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 10:48 pm

amother wrote:

Interesting. I just asked a shaila last night and he quoted me that rav elyashiv said it is allowed. Anyway we each will follow our rav.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Aug 26 2018, 10:51 pm

amother wrote:

Interesting to know as im interested in a thicker haired sheitel which im having a hard time finding. While the thin hair shietel looks nice, it is not good for my face bec I need more hair for my big round face. Do u know where they sell chinese hair sheitels such that they hsve thicker hair/more volume

amother

Denim

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 1:12 am

penguin wrote:

If you have amazon prime, watch the video "Just Extensions".

If you have youtube, you can watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlZ1SWLBfPE

Besides telling how much of the Human hair sold today, is from India from people who offer their hair as a sacriifice to their Deiities. This hair gets sold by the tons to China, who then sell the hair to Wig makers.
Actually a minority of wig hair is actually cut off and stolen from women in poor countries.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 1:15 am

Rav Elyashiv most certainly did not allow the Indian hair and he was quite strict with it - he said even if the hair from India is not the majority (which it is) its still not allowed and that there is no batul beshishim with tikrovas avoda zora

amother

Ginger

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 3:47 pm

I just wanted to say that the chances that all sheitel hair come from India are way too great. Just to create one sheitel many 'pony tails' are needed, and us jews are only a tiny percent of those who use human hair for wigs. Only in India, the hindu woman is ever so happy to shave her hair from her own will as part of her sacrifice, and that hair gets tossed around the world until it reaches the head of Yiddishe Mammas including those that have tags saying they are from Brazil, Ukrain ect. Hair goes back and forth and visits several countries, and so t's impossible to control the source of hair when it's shipped around so much.

Think of it, for what price would a woman agree to shave off her hair? Even the poorest Brazilian woman wouldn't. And we would need thousands of those a month who are willing to do such a thing. In India, the hindus do it out of their own will, for free.

It's so sad when you think of it, we would never allow a certain brand of meat to enter the house that is known to be %99 Kosher, with just a tiny chance it is treif. For some reason, when it comes to Sheitel wearing, we just brush it off even though it is so likely the very same hair used as Tikrovet Avoda Zara - which is worse that worshipping Avoda Zara itself. This no joke, to think that as we daven and light the shabbos candles, walk into shul for Neila and say viduy - with most likely one of the three aveiros that a jew should sacrifice his life for on our head.

To the one who mentioned to ask your local Rabbi, it's about time we realize that not every local rabbi has vast knowledge in every area. There's no way they can, as much as they are trained to know the whole torah, some areas need a lifetime spent to real know and be updated as the years go by. When it comes to Sheilos that are related to such terrible aveiros one should ask someone who's been there, traveled the world and spent and still spends hours researching this very complex topic.

On a personal note, if the concern of Avoda Zara was the only one I would get my sister to outgrow her hair and create a shaitel on my own, and she would with mine. But because the styles of today's sheitels of 2018 has gone out of hand, I began wearing a simple snood, even at weddings. My brother got married last week and I can write a book about the emotional journey I went through being the only woman with a bandana in the hall. I used to think like so many of us that the reason a married woman covers her hair is because her own hair is not allowed to be seen in public, for no understandable reason. If I saw someone wearing a snood with too much hair sticking out I would be proud of my sheitel because it held back my hair so well. Today, after looking into it on a very deep level I know that it's not like Para aduma, something we do without a reason that doesn't make sense, rather the one and only reason we cover our hair is because hair is attracting to men and when a girl gets married and becomes an 'Ayshis Ish' she must conceal herself more, and a head full of hair is one of those things she should no longer walk outside with. When it comes to attraction, it doesn't matter if it's the woman's very own hair or someone else's. The concept of not revealing too much hair while wearing a snood comes from the Zohar, as a good chumra to do. The big aveira is having men see an ayshes ish with hair, and since today's sheitels are usually much more beautiful and striking than her own, it's a scary thought how many of us are sinning throughout a life time without even knowing. The zohar is a hiddur, not a more tzniyus way of dress rather more like a kabala for having righteous children. Because what's a few hairs compared to a sheitel?! It's mind boggling that such a basic explanation of this mitzva we aren't taught and is very little known. It's crazy how I used to think that as long as it's easy to tell it's a wig, it's fine, while in reality there isn't even one source to that!

The Rabanim have long given up, it's a lost case, even though a breach of tzniyus for a married woman is Deavizraihu Giluy Arayos. I saw a few clips of rav elyashiv, the gadol hador, saying sadly that he knows no one would listen to him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRmEOtrdDmI

The Sheitels of 180 years ago when it first became popular to wear them outside after the jewish nation had been wearing kerchief's for 2,000 years, many rabanim were very against., the heter was B'diEved. The haskala in Germany was the major cause for the breach of pritzus, and in Russia the anti-Semitism. Fast forward to our generation, no more haskala, and anti-Semitism in regards to covering hair also not b"h, but the few rabanim who ruled wearing a sheitel in public is mutar, were referring to the wigs they had then, which means a style no one nowdays would even turn their head to give a glance. I cringe when I remember how innocent I was, thinking I was making a kiddush Hashem by putting on my updated sheitel when I stepped outside.

I once spoke to a baalas tshuva, and she told me that Judaism was so easy to adapt to and understand, but when it came to covering hair and everyone tought her that sheitels is the way to go, she just couldn't get it. It felt like finding the easy way out while gaining something much better while you're at it. Today she's used to it and enjoys every minute of the gorgeous appearance only a sheitel can create.

Wow, that was long.... I planned to use my screen name but due to the sensitivity of this topic I'm afraid of being attacked, though I know that in each and every Neshama the truth is very much there, even though it is so hard to see the right path in a such a lost generation like ours where even local rabanim, are struggling to show us the light and many times, see it themselves.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 4:02 pm

Wow Ginger- I am blown away!!

Thank you for sharing all that info and kol hakavod to you for what you are doing!

goodmorning

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 4:34 pm

amother wrote:

It's so sad when you think of it, we would never allow a certain brand of meat to enter the house that is known to be %99 Kosher, with just a tiny chance it is treif. For some reason, when it comes to Sheitel wearing, we just brush it off even though it is so likely the very same hair used as Tikrovet Avoda Zara - which is worse that worshipping Avoda Zara itself.

On what basis do you say that tikroves avoda zara is worse than worshiping avoda zara? There are even opinions that tikroves a"z is d'rabanan.

amother

Linen

Mon, Aug 27 2018, 6:17 pm

I have mentioned this before.

There was a story, and I believe it was with Rav Moshe Feinstein zt"l (so I will tell the story that way, and apologize if it's not accurate). A woman came to him after the war. She said that she had remarried after her husband was killed during the war, based on the psak of a choshuvah Rov Ploni in Europe. And now the first husband had turned up alive!

Rav Moshe kept asking her more and more sternly to repeat her story. Finally she broke down crying and admitted that she'd forged the letter from the Rov.

Rav Moshe said, "I knew Rav Ploni. He was a big tzaddik with tremendous siyata dishmaya. I have never had such a thing happen to me in all the agunos I permitted to marry, and I was certain it would never happen to him. Therefore, I knew that the woman was lying."

Says my DH, about Rav Moshe, if he permitted Indian hair, it's not possible HKBH would have allowed a mistake to come about and all the women wearing Indian hair wigs ever since would be sinning.

(Although I personally have stopped wearing wig for many reasons.)