How would you answer these questions? Please help

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

1 2 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Firebrick

Fri, Aug 31 2018, 6:35 pm

My DS is having a hard time adjusting to highschool yeshiva. Hours are long 7:30-6:30 with mishmar once per week. He has ADHD but is well managed on medication and an A student grade wise and behavior. His past teachers had no conferns about him going ti this yeshiva and I do trust that they have his best interests in mind. My issue is this, # 1 he keeps complaining about the hours, #2 he keeps comparingbhis hours and schedule to kids that go to public school and the MO school where some of his friends went. He wants to know why he has to suffer, why he is being robbed if his childhood, team sports etc. I feel bad but I do think this school is a better fit with our hashkafah. How would you respond?

FranticFrummie

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 4:21 pm

Those are excellent questions. I'd like to hear the answer, too.

Ruchel

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 5:42 pm

He isn't "robbed". He is in a system where I assume both kodesh and chol excell. That takes time. That's literally it. My acquaintances in kulo kodesh or low chol have shorter hours. I know of a school that way. I also know of school with 'nice" kodesh and chol with shorter hours, but they do not excell. It is also not my choice unless my child would want.

amother

Silver

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 6:06 pm

I think you have to pick your battles. I'd seriously consider transferring him.

amother

Natural

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 9:40 pm

If he feels that he's being robbed then it must be that the issue is deeper than simply the hours. If he is on the same page as his Yeshiva hashkafically then he'd understand why his hours are different. I think rather than focusing on the question he's asking, look deeper and see if he has the value of Torah learning that you have and maybe you (and your husband and his mashgiach) need to focus more on showing him the chashivus of Torah. Perhaps with giving him a better understanding of why he's learning so intensely and building him up to appreciate it, those questions won't be the issue.

That said, I'd make an effort to make sure he has downtime as learning all day is HARD and you don't want him getting burned out.

leah233

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 9:44 pm

Is he open to accepting an answer?

If yes I would answer that he has those hours is because there is no Mitzvah like Limud H'torah and there is nothing of eternal value like learning and knowing Torah. Therefore he is being guided towards a life of more emphasis on Torah and less on things like team sports. But of course empathize with his feeling of missing such activities.

If he's not open to hearing an answer and will continue being miserable in this school perhaps consider switching him to a different school. (He should give it a fair try to see if he gets used to it.)

You seem to have a high regard for his former teachers that recommended this school. Can you update them on the situation and get their input

It is disturbing that he is comparing himself to public school students. If he does change schools will those comparisons stop?

Last edited by leah233 on Sun, Sep 02 2018, 12:17 pm; edited 3 times in total

amother

Burgundy

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 9:47 pm

I was forced into a school I didn’t want to go to. In fact I cried and begged not to go there but parents were firm. It was hell for me. Please listen to your son and seriously consider switching him.

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 10:05 pm

I want to give it a month to see if he adjust to the new schedule but yes I would consider switching him. Will be hard to convince husband but I will do it if need be. My concern is we live OOT and only other school choice is a very modern co-ed MO school. I need something in between. I have looked and looked and the best I can find is a MO boys only school where he would dorm. I have heard some things about it that make me nervous. I am looking into it and an israel program.

animeme

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 10:06 pm

Does his mesivta have time to play sports? Is it possible to set him up with a league or intramurals in the evenings? Night seder only once a week should allow for that. If it doesn't exist, put it together- many boys would benefit.

It's common for boys to chafe at the hours at the beginning of a new, higher level school. It can just be a stage as long as the school provides what your son needs. If the chol and kodesh are good/respected, then you can justify the hours. If he needs sports (many boys do- not want, need), and they can be included in his life, then he can adjust. It certainly would help if there is also a time during the day (lunch? Break between kodesh and chol?) that he can shoot around a bit to blow off some steam and move around.

If it continues to be a problem, you can look at other options of schools. But showing him you are willing to put in effort to set up the things he values will go a long way.

animeme

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 10:09 pm

Just read your post. Do most of his friends go to the modern school? Were they all together in school up until high school?

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Sep 01 2018, 10:10 pm

Most of his friends go to the school he is currently at only a few attend the MO school.

chummus

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 12:32 am

If he is really miserable sometimes it's better to go to another yeshiva that may not be your exact hashkafa. You don't want your son to feel too much pressure. He may burn out.

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 12:37 am

When I was in ninth grade I was very unhappy in school. I asked my parents to transfer me. They refused.
Fast forward .....after high school I got married and enrolled myself in the program I wanted. Dh was so distraught, we ended up divorcing.
If my parents had been responsive to me I might have satisfied my hunger in high school.
I don't know why parents ignore a high school aged child who expresses a clear discontent about a current school placement. Kids are not stupid, they know what works and what doesn't work for them. They should be taken seriously. Sooner or later they will be big enough to make their own decisions. You can only control them for so long ...

SJcookie

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 3:42 am

Speak to a Rav who is a chinuch expert - if you live in the US, Rabbi Zechariah Wallerstein is a very insightful and patient Rav to contact and is not too difficult to reach.

Children (and yes, a high schooler is still a child and not an adult who can make his own decisions) often work according to feelings and not according to logic.
As a parent, you need to explain to him that you hear his concerns, you respect his emotions and feelings, but in the end, YOU will make the best decision that you (and your husband) see fit for him.

I explain things to my children as adults - they are younger but things do come up like "why does everyone have this kind of toy and I don't?" - I answer the question with full honesty. Or "why do I need to learn for longer while others are playing outside?" and I explain that the road to greatness is only achieved working hard. Explain your hashkafah. Explain why you think this is the best choice for him.

Also - make sure to reward him for his efforts. Make him feel good about being in the school that he is in. I know someone who is a twin. He (and the twin) did not grow up in a frum home but were sent to frum schools. He was the frummer twin and his brother starting slacking off in HS and going off the derech. His father, who was not a very frum man, told him "if you do well in your Torah learning, I will buy you anything you want - the nicest suit, the best books, etc. just please continue learning well. It is worth everything in this world and next world for me and I'm willing to do anything for you in order to succeed in your learning." He stayed strong throughout HS and he is now a Rav of a large Shul in Israel (that's how I know him - he says his story) and unfortunately his twin brother is no longer frum, he is a very successful business man but very much looks up to this brother and often expressed that he wishes he was as strong as him.

Hatzlacha!

chani8

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 4:26 am

Sounds like his hashkafa may be different than yours. My kids all grew up into their own religious observance ranging from less strict to more strict than us. We let them decide which high schools.

My daughter on a long schedule took ritalin LA twice a day, once at 7 and again at 3, wearing off at 11 in time for bed.

slushiemom

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 4:36 am

amother wrote:

It is a really long day, and I'm of the opinion that you should really see what he wants - but in terms of dorming, is it really better to have him away from home and away from you, rather than be in school with girls but come home every night?

cinnamon

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 4:57 am

Just wanted to agree with SJcookie.

My nine year old comes home at six this year. A lot of the kids in the neighborhood have a shorter day and he was really upset all summer and worried about when he will have time to do things.
We talked a lot about how his school is really good and he gets an excellent kodesh education and a decent chol education too and how important and special that is.
We also spoke about schedules and how to fit in everything that has to be done plus things you want to do.
It didn't really convince him but it gave him an opening to vent all he wanted (Which he did to an annoying degree I just had to bite my tongue and perfect my "yah I know it really is SO hard" responses) and even though he didn't accept the explanation, I think it helped to know there is one and it's not just cruelty on our part...

We also did some stuff to help him come to terms with it:
1. He has a later bedtime and gets extra screen time when he comes home.
2. Once a week he gets a few shekels to buy a treat during lunch and once a month he gets takeout for lunch
3. we found a sports team that's geared to kids in his type of cheider so they have late practice (and on that day since he gets home at seven thirty I take care of his chores which is a big bonus for him)
4. I'll find little ways to make coming home late worthwhile like if dd is going somewhere I'll tell her to take the trash out and then when ds comes home I'll make big deal out of how he came home late and dd already took out the trash so he doesn't have to. Or I'll schedule an errand around when he finishes school and then tell him "I have to go someplace at five thirty I can pick you up and you can come with me. Isn't it great you finish exactly when I have the doctor's appointme?"

Even with all of that he still complains sometimes and I just take it as a vent and tell him that I know it really does suck and offer a cup of shoko or if there's time to go out for a little walk with me to decompress.

Obviously dealing with a teenager is a lot harder than dealing with a nine year old and a few shekel once a week isn't gonna cut it for a fifteen year old but maybe you can use some of these principles to help your son.

amother

Wine

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 5:47 am

Having my children in Chassidish Yeshiva, I ask those same questions.
Their day is way, way too long. I totally agree with your son and wish I can change it for my kids too.

( they say it keeps the teenagers out of trouble. I can hear that but is that even a thing?)

Sadie

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 6:19 am

Your son is right, those hours are brutal and not appropriate for a teenager, with or without ADD. They’re not even good hours for an adult job. I would have a breakdown with a schedule like this, even doing something that I love and am good at.
I hope they get a lot of breaks throughout the day, and yes teenagers do need physical activity.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 9:01 am

Is Rabbi Wallerstein open to recommending all derechs? Can I contact him or does it need to be my husband?

Page 1 of 2

1 2 Next