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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
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amother
Yellow
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 Tue, Sep 04 2018, 4:37 am
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Is it normal for people not to bring wedding gifts?
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amother
Puce
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 5:39 am
Is it normal? I don't think so. Does it happen? Yes.
I got married 2 years ago. About 25% of the people who attended did not give a gift.
Even a token gift is better than nothing.
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amother
Sapphire
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 7:52 am
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This depends very much on your community and social circles. When people have 2-3 simchas per night, several days of the week, the gift giving standards and expectations are very different from when you have one a month or a few per year, for example.
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amother
Babypink
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 7:59 am
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Yes. I have sometimes six weddings a week. I only give close family and friends. Usually the ounces I sit down to the meal.
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amother
Seagreen
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 8:04 am
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I used to always give. Recently I’ve been invited to multiple weddings a month and I just can’t keep up with it. Some weddings I attend for just a few minutes. If I am invited because I know the kallahs mother, I might not give the kallah who I don’t really know. I’m not justifying why I don’t give, I know it’s the right thing to do but I really can’t afford 6 weddings a month.
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amother
Puce
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 8:08 am
| amother wrote: | | I used to always give. Recently I’ve been invited to multiple weddings a month and I just can’t keep up with it. Some weddings I attend for just a few minutes. If I am invited because I know the kallahs mother, I might not give the kallah who I don’t really know. I’m not justifying why I don’t give, I know it’s the right thing to do but I really can’t afford 6 weddings a month. |
Yes, if I pop in to a wedding to wish mazal tov, or only stay for the chupah (because I'm only friend with the parents or something) I don't give a gift because that would be cost prohibitive. But if I stay for the dinner and they paid for my plate, of course I give a gift.
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SuperWify
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 8:18 am
| amother wrote: | Is it normal? I don't think so. Does it happen? Yes.
I got married 2 years ago. About 25% of the people who attended did not give a gift.
Even a token gift is better than nothing. |
25% did not give?? Wow your really lucky!
I’d say 25% did give.
But keep in mind I did get Vort and shower presents from a lot of the guests already- should I also have expected a wedding gift?!
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amother
Mauve
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 8:26 am
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I didn't keep track but I'd say more than half my guests did not bring gifts. We had about 400 people and got maybe 50 gifts--not all at the wedding. I wanted people to join in my simcha. That doesn't mean they owe me gifts.
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amother
Puce
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 8:54 am
| SuperWify wrote: | 25% did not give?? Wow your really lucky!
I’d say 25% did give.
But keep in mind I did get Vort and shower presents from a lot of the guests already- should I also have expected a wedding gift?! |
I got zero engagement gifts, except maybe some inexpensive things from family members who were not going to be able to make it to the wedding, and I did not have a shower.
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amother
Purple
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 9:26 am
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I used to always give gifts until my sons bar mitzvah. So many people walked in empty handed to our simcha. We have given these people’s kids gifts. After we felt if they can’t at least walk in with a small gift I don’t have to work hard to give gifts. So we only give gifts to certain people now.
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cm
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 9:30 am
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I never bring a gift to the wedding itself for fear that the gift would be lost. I generally send a check or have something from the registry delivered.
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amother
Tan
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 9:38 am
| SuperWify wrote: | 25% did not give?? Wow your really lucky!
I’d say 25% did give.
But keep in mind I did get Vort and shower presents from a lot of the guests already- should I also have expected a wedding gift?! |
Those count as wedding gifts.
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amother
Puce
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 9:42 am
| cm wrote: | | I never bring a gift to the wedding itself for fear that the gift would be lost. I generally send a check or have something from the registry delivered. |
But you do give a gift.
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amother
Gold
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 9:45 am
I think its normal if the ppl are not rich. Why?? Bec we yehudim bh have a lot of kids which means many simchas. This means if I give for every simcha, baby, wedding, bar mitzva, plus b day parties of kids friends, plus teachers/rebbes....it adds up to a lot of money. Its not possible for me to give even to family members bec I have a big family so lots of events.
If I were rich, I would definitely give. However, who is asking this question because I think the kallah/chasan or parents of chasan/kallah should not invite ppl expecting everyone to give a gift. I think that is the wrong reason to invite someone, and I think ppl who feel everyone must give gifts is just too entitled similar to those who expect their parents to give them downpayment for a house...
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cm
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 10:31 am
| amother wrote: | | But you do give a gift. |
Yes, just responding directly to the question asked.
As for not giving a gift at all - I always give a gift if invited, but that is not more than a few times a year. I don't know what I would do if I were invited to as many weddings as I am reading about in this thread. I suppose in communities where families are large and guest lists are larger (in my world, 300 is huge), gift etiquette might be quite different.
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amother
Salmon
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 10:48 am
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I heard there's a halacha that if someone gives you a gift, you're supposed to give the same in return, so I keep a list of how much people gave me, so when the right time comes, we can give back.
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southernbubby
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 10:56 am
| amother wrote: | | I heard there's a halacha that if someone gives you a gift, you're supposed to give the same in return, so I keep a list of how much people gave me, so when the right time comes, we can give back. |
Interesting because I never heard of it as a halacha but more of a social obligation.
In Detroit, there is a custom to make showers for the kallah and many who participate in the shower or sheva brachas don't give additional gifts. After awhile, though, there become more simchas than anyone can reasonably give to and it is a good idea to keep records who who gave to your kids so that you can at least reciprocate to those.
I would also add that it is unfortunate if the wealthy who give big gifts get reciprocated in kind but the poor who actually need the gifts but who can't afford to give get nothing!
ETA there is a halacha that if the gift is for the purpose of tzedukah to a poor kallah, it cannot be considered maaser if it is being given as a social obligation. Say Mr Plony usually gives $50 to a regular kallah but gives $100 to a poor kallah, he can count the additional $50 as maaser but the first $50 is paying for his social obligation.
Last edited by southernbubby on Tue, Sep 04 2018, 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Sapphire
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 10:57 am
| SuperWify wrote: | 25% did not give?? Wow your really lucky!
I’d say 25% did give.
But keep in mind I did get Vort and shower presents from a lot of the guests already- should I also have expected a wedding gift?! |
Those are wedding gifts. Of course you shouldn't have expected more.
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amother
Salmon
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 11:11 am
| southernbubby wrote: | Interesting because I never heard of it as a halacha but more of a social obligation.
In Detroit, there is a custom to make showers for the kallah and many who participate in the shower or sheva brachas don't give additional gifts. After awhile, though, there become more simchas than anyone can reasonably give to and it is a good idea to keep records who who gave to your kids so that you can at least reciprocate to those.
I would also add that it is unfortunate if the wealthy who give big gifts get reciprocated in kind but the poor who actually need the gifts but who can't afford to give get nothing!
ETA there is a halacha that if the gift is for the purpose of tzedukah to a poor kallah, it cannot be considered maaser if it is being given as a social obligation. Say Mr Plony usually gives $50 to a regular kallah but gives $100 to a poor kallah, he can count the additional $50 as maaser but the first $50 is paying for his social obligation. |
https://www.vosizneias.com/468.....=desc
from vos iz neias: see link above
New York - Often people are invited to a wedding. They sit, they eat, and sometimes, they do not bring wedding gifts. Of course it is a social no-no not to bring a gift, but is it a halachic obligation?
Today’s Daf (bava Basra 145a) seems to indicate that it is. The braisah states that 5 things were said in regard to Shoshvinin. One of them is reciprocity. If a person gave you a gift for your wedding, you must likewise reciprocate - or you must return the original gift.
The Shulchan Aruch in Even hoEzer (Siman 60) seems to indicate that the laws of Shoshvinim are not really obnserved today. However, many of the Achronim have commented that these laws are not observed to the extent that the gifts legally have to be returned. However, in regard to the obligation of giving it, this is still the custom (See Drishas Ari, e.g.)
Often the parents depend upon the wedding gifts for their children, and have spent the wedding money with this in mind - that they predict a certain return on the catering cost so that they do not have to provide their children with whatever marriage start up money they had planned to give initially.
nowadays bais din can't force someone to give a gift back, but in the past they could. Even so, it's proper to give.
Rambam Zechiya U’matana 7:2-5 talks about this.
I agree that if they gave a shower gift that counts as a wedding gift.
If people can't afford to give gifts, but are close to the couple, most people understand if they can't give gifts. It they're not that close to the couple, then they can come to chuppah instead of dinner.
If you're giving a gift to someone who can't afford it, you can always have in mind that it is tzedaka and take of off from maaser, and you don't have to expect back.
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southernbubby
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Tue, Sep 04 2018, 11:15 am
| amother wrote: | https://www.vosizneias.com/46871/2010/01/13/new-york-todays-daf-bava-basra-145a-wedding-gifts-are-they-obligatory/?comments_sort=desc
from vos iz neias: see link above
New York - Often people are invited to a wedding. They sit, they eat, and sometimes, they do not bring wedding gifts. Of course it is a social no-no not to bring a gift, but is it a halachic obligation?
Today’s Daf (bava Basra 145a) seems to indicate that it is. The braisah states that 5 things were said in regard to Shoshvinin. One of them is reciprocity. If a person gave you a gift for your wedding, you must likewise reciprocate - or you must return the original gift.
The Shulchan Aruch in Even hoEzer (Siman 60) seems to indicate that the laws of Shoshvinim are not really obnserved today. However, many of the Achronim have commented that these laws are not observed to the extent that the gifts legally have to be returned. However, in regard to the obligation of giving it, this is still the custom (See Drishas Ari, e.g.)
Often the parents depend upon the wedding gifts for their children, and have spent the wedding money with this in mind - that they predict a certain return on the catering cost so that they do not have to provide their children with whatever marriage start up money they had planned to give initially.
nowadays bais din can't force someone to give a gift back, but in the past they could. Even so, it's proper to give.
Rambam Zechiya U’matana 7:2-5 talks about this.
I agree that if they gave a shower gift that counts as a wedding gift.
If people can't afford to give gifts, but are close to the couple, most people understand if they can't give gifts. It they're not that close to the couple, then they can come to chuppah instead of dinner.
If you're giving a gift to someone who can't afford it, you can always have in mind that it is tzedaka and take of off from maaser, and you don't have to expect back. |
Ok, so it is proper to give a gift but it is no longer forced by the beis din and shoshvinin are not really observed today. I do agree that if you can't give, don't attend the meal.
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