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S/o what makes people convert from judaism to other religion
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amother




Amber


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 3:52 pm
It must be a different reason than just dropping observance which could be due to emotional hardships, trauma, bad experience with Jews, intellectual reasons. But what make someone actually covert to a different religion? That's a much bigger step than if they just decide not to become frum. Is there anything we can do to prevent it?
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thunderstorm




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 3:55 pm
So many people leave Judaism and become atheists. In a way , they don't believe in G-D at all. To me disconnecting from religion entirely and from G-D entirely is even more concerning. Why do I think this way?
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 3:59 pm
amother wrote:
It must be a different reason than just dropping observance which could be due to emotional hardships, trauma, bad experience with Jews, intellectual reasons. But what make someone actually covert to a different religion? That's a much bigger step than if they just decide not to become frum. Is there anything we can do to prevent it?
What makes anyone convert to any religion? They believe that that is the truth. SImply that.
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:00 pm
Sheer stupidity IMO as well as desperation for acceptance and love. To Christians, converting a Jew is a big plus in heaven so some of them are very good at proselytizing and love bombing. To a lost soul who is starved for some warmth that sort of lovebombing can be irresistible. It’s the same reason some people convert to Judaism or become religious.
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amother




Amber


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:09 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
So many people leave Judaism and become atheists. In a way , they don't believe in G-D at all. To me disconnecting from religion entirely and from G-D entirely is even more concerning. Why do I think this way?

I think it's entirely different and much more chamur to actually convert to Christianity, than just to become not observant, and a way bigger step than even becoming an atheist.
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amother




Amber


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:11 pm
Zehava wrote:
Sheer stupidity IMO as well as desperation for acceptance and love. To Christians, converting a Jew is a big plus in heaven so some of them are very good at proselytizing and love bombing. To a lost soul who is starved for some warmth that sort of lovebombing can be irresistible. It’s the same reason some people convert to Judaism or become religious.

Are Xians more loving? I doubt it.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:11 pm
amother wrote:
I think it's entirely different and much more chamur to actually convert to Christianity, than just to become not observant,( and even to become atheist)

My question is why. In atheism you are tossing the concept of a higher being and a G-d out the window. In Christianity you still believe in the same G-D.
You don't have to answer me. It's just a question I have.
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leah233




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:12 pm
There are few frum people who convert to other religions these days. Those who do are usually lonely people who are attracted to the Xtian message of love. Most people convert to atheism.


The reason behind this because an OTD movement needs the right social , political and psychological backdrop to gain converts. In 2018 most other religions aren't making such an offer in the US.


Back in the 1400s in Spain there was mass conversion to Catholicism, in other countries (later on) there was mass conversion to Islam. Of course those who converted INSISTED that they would have loved to remain frum but as truth seekers there is no way they can deny the truth of Catholicism or Islam.

Looking back at the situation it is obvious that they felt that way because they happened to have lived in a society where those religions were dominant.

Today atheism is offering the most to the OTD crowd so that is what they insist they believe.

You won't find those great "truth seekers" researching and considering say Buddhism for the simple reason. The Buddhists aren't offering anything for their neshomas in the US so why bother?
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leah233




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:14 pm
amother wrote:
I think it's entirely different and much more chamur to actually convert to Christianity, than just to become not observant, and a way bigger step than even becoming an atheist.



I don't think this is correct. The Rambam says that atheism is worse than idolatry.


And at least the Xtians believe in Torah M'Sinai
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amother




Amber


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:15 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
My question is why. In atheism you are tossing the concept of a higher being and a G-d out the window. In Christianity you still believe in the same G-D.
You don't have to answer me. It's just a question I have.

To me, it sounds like converting to Xianity is way worse than just not believing because it's an extra step. But maybe halacha says otherwise- idk. Anyone have any idea?
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amother




Amber


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:22 pm
leah233 wrote:
I don't think this is correct. The Rambam says that atheism is worse than idolatry.
Does he say that atheism is worse than idolatry for a non Jew or a Jew? For a non Jew it's better to believe in 1 G-d, but for a Jew?
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:37 pm
amother wrote:
Does he say that atheism is worse than idolatry for a non Jew or a Jew? For a non Jew it's better to believe in 1 G-d, but for a Jew?


Both. The Rambam says that atheism is MUCH worse than avodah zarah, even.
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amother




Plum


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 5:14 pm
B”H I wouldn’t know what makes a Jew convert out but I have theories depending on what they converted to and where they were coming from. The motivation had to be very strong if they were remotely observant before, because if it were just laziness or disillusionment with an observant lifestyle they could just go OTD and cease observing, why bother going to the trouble of converting and taking on a new set of obligations?

So the ones who convert have to have a powerful motivation which can be either social or idealogical. Ideological: they really believe that this other religion is the way to go. Maybe this religion seems more inclusive, or the way the deity and/or the rituals are presented makes himheritthey seem more appealing, reachable, responsive, politically correct, accepting or even fun.

Social: I think acceptance here is a biggie. Theoretically Yiddishkeit is a very accepting religion but let’s face it, Yiddishkeit as practiced by many social groups is heavy on the exclusion. If you don’t wear the “right” headgear, live in the “right” area, attend the “right” schools and houses of worship, follow the “right” leader, have the “right “ occupation...you’re nothing, nobody, worthless. And if you ask the “wrong” questions, so much the worse.

Now along comes the Religion of the Month professing unconditional love, or maybe love with just one condition, accepting the deity of the month. They usually do a good job of welcoming people interested in learning about the faith and practically drowning them in goodwill. How marvelous this must be to someone who feels dissed and rejected by the co/religionists of his birth! Remember, these religions are often actively, even aggressively, seeking converts. It’s in their interests to be open, encouraging, welcoming, helpful etc etc


Then there is the “getting back at parents-teachers-other religious authority figures—and maybe even G-d as viewed through the lens of Yiddishkeit”— angle. You could do drugs, sleep around, and steal cars, but why risk addiction, STDs and jail when you can deliver the ultimate slap in the face to all of the above by simply converting to another faith? It’s clean, safe, and legal, and you don’t have to hang out with a lot of sketchy characters.
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amother




Plum


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 5:19 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Both. The Rambam says that atheism is MUCH worse than avodah zarah, even.


Because an atheist admits to no superior authority. Even an idolater acknowledges that there is a superior being or beings in charge. To an atheist, humankind is the ultimate authority, which belief is the ultimate heresy.
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amother




Plum


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 5:30 pm
amother wrote:
Are Xians more loving? I doubt it.
As individuals? Probably not. As a movement? They put on a convincing act. Many denominations are very much in the business of making converts and devote massive resources to it.

It is ironic how viciously hateful Christianity had been, historically, in its “loving” pursuit of people’s souls to “save” . Nowadays the leadership seems to have decided that you catch more flies with honey and so the Inquisition is knocked out and the welcome mats are laid out.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 5:32 pm
amother wrote:
Because an atheist admits to no superior authority. Even an idolater acknowledges that there is a superior being or beings in charge. To an atheist, humankind is the ultimate authority, which belief is the ultimate heresy.

And so so many people that are OTD say they are atheists and don't believe in G-D at all. Yet when one person converts to Christianity , a big deal is being made. Scratching Head
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tf




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 5:32 pm
amother wrote:
Are Xians more loving? I doubt it.

Correct. But that is what they try to sell to their victims
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amother




Slateblue


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 5:36 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
And so so many people that are OTD say they are atheists and don't believe in G-D at all. Yet when one person converts to Christianity , a big deal is being made. Scratching Head

The atheists I know are not atheists, though they'll deny that. When it comes down to the wire, they find their inner belief.
This seems different.
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amother




Amber


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 6:35 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Both. The Rambam says that atheism is MUCH worse than avodah zarah, even.
I didn't know this, but I have to admit it still doesn't make sense to me.
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amother




Amber


Post  Tue, Oct 16 2018, 6:38 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Both. The Rambam says that atheism is MUCH worse than avodah zarah, even.

But isn't avoda zara, yaharog viahl yaavor? It doesn't say that for atheism?
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