Please be honest about seminary.

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Khaki

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 10:23 pm

My daughter is in twelve grade and while she has the grade point average to get into the top top seminaries in Israel - she is totally not interested!

She spent so many years sitting in a desk, passively listening. She wants to actually do something.

My husband and I completely support her. But the peer pressure is immense. It’s all the girls discuss....

You would think high school wasn’t sufficient to give them a strong base for yiddishkeit.

Thank God I don’t subscribe to peer pressure and I allow my daughter to continue to be the individual she is. Hope more will follow suit...

rgr

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 10:33 pm

There's a lot more options these days for local seminaries.

Absolutely don't send to BY Intensive unless your daughter plans on being a BY teacher for less than 10K a year.

However, there's a seminary in Lakewood that is very warm, solid program, there's also the New York seminary that is for very academic girls. Bulka for those who want college, and I believe there are others if anyone else can chime in.

Also, coming from certain areas (Brooklyn, Lakewood) it's much more accepted to skip seminary. It's not nearly the red flag it is from other places

amother

Teal

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 10:40 pm

I went to seminary because my parents thought it was the most important thing ever. I didn’t want it but no one listened to me so I went. I hated it. Whatever you do, listen to your daughter’s opinion!

gold21

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 10:45 pm

I didn't broach the topic of Israeli sem with my parents since I knew it was super expensive.

I went to a local seminary because sem is what I was "supposed" to do... For shidduchim.... Etc. I didn't particularly enjoy it.

How's that for honesty....

amother

Ginger

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 10:51 pm

Is it really "acceptable" to skip seminary coming from Lakewood?

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 11:01 pm

I feel like I need to post here.

My daughter is in seminary now. 95% of her classmates went to Israel for seminary and she wanted to go too. We weren’t opposed to it, even though in our circles it isn’t so accepted. But she needed to go. Just to gain independence and find herself.

Now to tell you the truth, she hates it. Calls home crying every day. She is not one to drink the cool aid they are trying to sell. As a matter of fact, she walked out of one teachers class during a very intense cool aid drinking session. She doesn’t take that. And she hates it.

For now, she doesn’t want to switch. She says they are all the same. But she really doesn’t like it. Says most of her friends feel the same.

It was very funny cuz she saw the ads for most of the sem open houses and says she wants to let people know the truth. She wishes someone would have told her the truth last year, before she left.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 11:08 pm

amother wrote:

I don't disagree with you. I wish there was a way for me to have gained emotionally without going through the whole Kool-Aid business. Personally, it worked out well for me B'H, but I see many girls who drink the Kool-Aid, get married to a long-term learner, have a million kids, and are miserable.

how do you know they are miserable? they tell you????

amother

Dodgerblue

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 11:12 pm

amother wrote:

how do you know they are miserable? they tell you????

Some people told me. Some people told my dh. Not that they're miserable with their husbands, necessarily, but that they're not happy with the life they cut out for themselves. They chose something because of pressure from others, not because it was the best for them.

Frankly, I am pretty bitter about this--not with the lifestyle I chose, but with the fact that I would/will be judged by my teachers and mentors for not having a husband who learns long-term. We made the best decision for our family. I know that we are doing the right thing. I'm just insecure about it.

amother

Amethyst

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 11:26 pm

My kids are homeschooled.
Seminary gave them a chance to learn, grow
become more independent, develop friendships, experience dorm life and a school other than homeschool.
Obviously no peer pressure...lol
My girls didn't want to go to Israel and chose to stay in America.
I am happy they all went.

amother

Purple

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 1:41 am

Im posting as a daughter. The sem experience may have been destroyed by (some people who go and some people who teach but more so ) technology, phones, internet etc

Personally I gained alot, I say it was the roof to the foundation and building built prior by my Hs and home. It helped me have the understanding of why we do what we do and where I wana head in life.

And yea for my brothers in shidduchim my parents want a girl who attended sem they feel if not she missed out on something...he needs more than a high school girl and more than an american sem girl, needs someone who left her surrondings for a year to learn and grow...

And I wonder... what are you calling kool aid?? Where I went to sem most of what we were taught is torah textual, is that kool aid??

amother

Purple

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 1:48 am

amother wrote:

how do you know they are miserable? they tell you????

They may have made their life choices based on society. Every person israel sem or not needs to Be honest with themself about what they want and what that want includes. Btw having tons of kids is no connection. Every couple needs a rav and even very yeshivish rabbis will give a lady BC if she is honest to him about whats going on..,.

All those I know living this way are happy. Its x easy but its rewarding...
I for myslf feel that bec I didnt get married off the plane fom sem I had time to digest my feelings and figure it all out... I thought I did. None of us knows whats in store (if u do plz PM me!) life may not have so far turned out the way I pictured but its been really good bH!!

Ruchel

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 6:10 am

Many moms secretly hope their daughter goes to a summer sem and be done with it lol. Especially expensive ones. I have no interest personally in forcing them, just will let them know it's a social thing and CAN be about growth. I was told not to go because I didn't need.

amother

Honeydew

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 7:35 am

I was opposed to seminary until recently but having seen up close what seminary does for the girls that went to E"Y I am strongly reconsidering it now. DD wants to go and if we can find a way financially I would totally send her. Sem here is a total waste of time. Just be careful because even the top seminaries in E"Y have girls who take advantage of the hefkeirus and I heard firsthand that there are things going on that no one will tell you about.

amother

Navy

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 7:46 am

I went to a top seminary that is now known to really mess with the vulnerable girls. I was a vulnerable girl. I got messed with. It was the last thing I needed in my life.
Do.your.research!!!!

dancingqueen

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 7:47 am

amother wrote:

If your hashkafa is that a man should support his family, but your daughter is going to go to a Bais Yaakov seminary -- you will probably have hashkafic objections to the view that men should learn forever.

Got it. But there are plenty of seminaries that don’t have that as their guiding hashkafah.

amother

Ginger

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 8:01 am

dancingqueen wrote:

Got it. But there are plenty of seminaries that don’t have that as their guiding hashkafah.

Can you name which seminaries have a more open-minded view? Because I'm interested for my daughter.

amother

Ginger

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 8:02 am

amother wrote:

I went to a top seminary that is now known to really mess with the vulnerable girls. I was a vulnerable girl. I got messed with. It was the last thing I needed in my life.
Do.your.research!!!!

What does this mean exactly?

chaiz

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 8:04 am

tigerwife wrote:

Waiting for Fox to chime in. I wonder if you can find one her essays on this topic.

I am also waiting. Smile

For me, seminary was a really great experience. However, my perspective has changed over the years and I am not sure I would support my daughters going to seminary for 10 months overseas. In this, I definitely agree with Fox about the potential major pitfalls for many students.

singleagain

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 8:10 am

amother wrote:

My sister went to a program..I think it was beni akiva or similar. They studied 3 months, lived on kibbutz for three months and did either the army or medical work for three months.

There are lots of amazing gap year programs that don't have to be sitting behind a desk passively learning... You just have to look for it.

amother

Bisque

Mon, Nov 12 2018, 8:14 am

Interesting that most ppl here ignored the shidduchim aspect of seminary. Its so true that ppl are thinking of shidduchim as a reason. There are other good reasons too. But certainly most boys moms asked what seminary the girl went to. They consider me "more modern" just bec I didnt go to seminary even though I did go to beis yaakov, dressed tznius(unlike some seminary girls who wear skirts too short).

My husband told me that hiz friend told him not to marry me bec I didnt go to seminary bec all "good frum " girls go to seminary.

Someone above posted that her dd had enough school. This was my biggest reason not to go to seminary. I was a good student and had enough of school bec I worked so hard all the years. My parents couldnt afford it and I needed to start working and college so that I could get a real job bec we were very poor and I had no money for basics that I couldnt rely on my parents for. However now I would love for the opportunity to learn and would appreciate it more after a break from school.

Someone wrote there are no learning opportunities for girls after high school so girls need seminary. I disagree bec there are so many shiurim where I live in nyc and therez online by phone fir women...and so many "night seminaries" for girls in college or...

Seminary in israel which is the "in thing" for frum beis yaakov girls is a peer pressure thing and most ppl sending their dd would think twice about their sons dating a girl who didnt go. Its interesting how these families who cant pay full tuition and get hachbosos kalla money have a way to pay for seminary. Schools should insist full tuition if a family can pay for seminary bec seminary is optional but going to school is mandatory by law.

And yes these girls do come home "delusioned" by "I want my dh to learn...". My 2 cousins did and I asked them how will u manage to live if ur parents cant support and they said their teacher said it will work out"". One cousin insisted she wanted kollel very yeshivish...and as she got older, she realized life is hard to work and raise kids...and looked for a man who coukd support and married rich non yeshivish. (She had time to realize what they teach in seminary is not real life unless u are rich).

Please, be honest, all of u whose dd go to seminary would u choose a girl who went to seminary for ur son to date over a girl who didnt attend seminary??

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