Satmar Rabbi Aaron teitelbaum declares war on DOE

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amother

Ecru

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 6:46 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

It is not 6 hours of specific courses though. It is it is 6 hours of ANY classes that meet the requirements. So, as long as Judaic classes (for example Hebrew language) meet a requirement, they can be counted toward the total.
The real problem, as it was explained to me, is the ambiguity. Precisely BECAUSE the requirements are not specific, Yeshiva’s may run into issues. All schools in the state will have to follow the guidelines, but whether or not any particular classes meet those requirements will be left up to each inspector, or whatever they will be called. That means that one inspector can say “yes, x school meets the requirements by incorporating them into Judaic studies classes” while another inspector can say “y school does NOT meet the requirements because these requirements can not be incorporated into Judaic studies classes.”

Interesting, thanks for explaining. So aside from Hebrew language, are there others that can possibly be counted? eg. chumash, parsha etc?

Ema of 5

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:08 pm

amother wrote:

Interesting, thanks for explaining. So aside from Hebrew language, are there others that can possibly be counted? eg. chumash, parsha etc?

Honestly I have no idea. Maybe Jewish history would work, and Gemara might be able to be used as well. Hashkafa also. Maybe Navi. Halacha.

amother

Ecru

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:10 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

Honestly I have no idea. Maybe Jewish history would work, and Gemara might be able to be used as well. Hashkafa also. Maybe Navi. Halacha.

But then what is the point of this legislation? What are the DOE trying to change with it?

amother

Jetblack

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:14 pm

amother wrote:

But then what is the point of this legislation? What are the DOE trying to change with it?

Currently, chedarim have one hour of general studies a day, and even that ends at bar mitzvah age. The state wants a more reasonable amount of time to cover more subjects, but they’re satisfied with some of the Hebrew subjects as requirements. So basically somewhere in the middle.

amother

Seashell

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:19 pm

The only schools that are "in trouble" based on this new legislation are those who teach no math or english. There are no Hebrew subjects that can substitute for them. And I don't see how they can complain about it when they are getting funding from the state specifically to teach subjects like those.

amother

Ecru

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:21 pm

amother wrote:

I see. Thanks for clarifying!

anon for this

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:28 pm

amother wrote:

I think he’s calling a spade a spade. The DOE says they want our system to be “on par” with the public school system. He’s answering to that. Simple.

I live in an out of town community that has acquiesced to the legal education standards here. A couple of years ago we were fighting against a course that would allow students to “pick a religion” because this was taught in “public schools and all other schools in the country.”

Frum Jewish schools ended up spending a fortune to develop a program that is similar but acceptable to the Jewish community, and the government still hasn’t approved it.

Now we’re back at it. This time it the s-x education that begins in kindergarten. Suddenly, the MO schools joined the bandwagon and want to be part of our meetings with the government to stop this mandatory program. It starts with how babies are made (presented neatly and completely to 5 year olds) and then encourages the children to explore the possibility that they may want to be part of the other s-x. This is the kindergarten program. It continues to m-sturbation in first grade and deals with s-xual relationships in the fourth grade curriculum.

When I sat with government officials to discuss the issues, I did exactly what satmar rebbe did. I said “we don’t have the s-x problems you have in the public schools. Why are you trying to create them?” It was a heated discussion. We’re still fighting. It was not a chillul Hashem. It would be a chillul Hashem to let it go.

I’m pretty sure if all of the New Yorkers don’t stop the ball from rolling, this will end up hurting everyone. Not just chassidim.

For the record, where I live, most private schools are partially funded by the government, but even the ones that are not funded are required to teach the mandated curriculum and parents can get fined or worse of their kids’ schools don’t comply.

amother wheat, are you located in the US? If so, would you mind posting which state?

devo1982

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:46 pm

anon for this wrote:

amother wheat, are you located in the US? If so, would you mind posting which state?

I highly doubt she's in the US since she says that the government funds most private schools. The curriculum and the funding sound more like it's a European country.

amother

Fuchsia

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:46 pm

anon for this wrote:

amother wheat, are you located in the US? If so, would you mind posting which state?

I don’t know about her but this all sounds very familiar and I live in Canada.

crust

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:49 pm

anon for this wrote:

amother wheat, are you located in the US? If so, would you mind posting which state?

I think she's from Montreal and she's posted about this before.
I wish the same happens here.

amother

Ecru

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:50 pm

crust wrote:

I think she's from Montreal and she's posted about this before.
I wish the same happens here.

You wish s-x ed gets forced on your pre-school aged school kids?

amother

Mauve

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:57 pm

No one sees how idiotic it is to say that public education produces criminals, while Yeshiva education - upstanding ppl?
He hasn't met thousands of good non Jews or doesn't know about frum criminals??!!

crust

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:12 pm

amother wrote:

You wish s-x ed gets forced on your pre-school aged school kids?

You know that I dont.

If I remember correctly this poster has posted that she was involved in working out a curriculum that works for Heimishe mosdos in Montreal.

I wish the same happens here.

I might be confusing her with another poster.

Rappel

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:19 pm

gingertop wrote:

One thing I respect about Satmar's attitude to the Israeli government is this "We don't want your money, we don't want your rules."

Which is ironic, since in Israel the ministry of education allows you to register your school such that you don't need to teach in accordance with outside standards at all. Those evil Zionists, legally allowing Torah-only schools across the country!

Last edited by Rappel on Sat, Dec 01 2018, 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Salmon

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:21 pm

The point is: Chassidish Yeshivas must make a bigger effort to have our boys be able to speak the language properly and give them basic math , reading and writing skills. To deny the fact that we are NOT giving them the basics, is being very unfair to our children. If, there is a discipline issue, that needs to taken care of too. To sweep this issue under the rug, by disparaging those that say the truth is hurting our boys. If we would have addressed this issue then the Yeffet would have NO reason to intervene.

Disclaimer: I am a Chassidic concerned parent (one of very many) that wants our children to learn to speak, read and write English.

Ps:I definitely don't want S*x ed in the curiculum

amother

Mauve

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:30 pm

This idiotic "war" on officials, aka Yavonim won't end well for the Rebbe 's followers. Is it really THAT hard to think logistically, listen to many parents wanting normal English/math/history education for their sons, and come up with the plan to discuss with state DOE folks??

https://www.vosizneias.com/311.....town/

amother

Royalblue

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:31 pm

I work in public school and just want to say that yes, this whole issue is really about a group of ppl who think all yeshivas are like chasidish schools and hardly teach english and math. This group of ignorant ppl are pushing the doe bec again, they think all yeshivas are not teaching math and english...enough hrs.

On the other hand, I just want to say that the entire "separation of church and state" is ridiculous bec in the doe, all the public schools ive worked in, (and I worked in many), celebrate"" chrizmas by having chrismas parties, chrismas performances, trees...yes they sometimes have a small menora or kwanza ....but the thing always talked about /made a big deal about is chrizmas such that it feelslike a private school with all christians celebrating chrismas. These schools really dont separate church and state.

chestnut

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:45 pm

amother wrote:

While talking about x-mas, do teachers talk about Yoshke? Or just about the tree, Santa clause, and presents? Big difference

amother

Salmon

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 8:59 pm

Totally off topic...a teacher in New Jersey was reprimanded today GASP!!! She told the kids that Santa and the elfs are NOT TRUE!!!! Santa doent exist. Parents were horrified that their kids came home to repeat what the teacher said....(I don't know if she wasn't fired, for saying the truth! LOL)

amother

Blue

Sat, Dec 01 2018, 9:05 pm

There is no talk of actual religious stuff. Santa, trees, etc have evolved as celebrations but in actuality have no connection to the religious aspect of the holiday. That is the extent of Xmas stuff in any public school I've worked in. My school has a "winter holiday" concert but only songs like jingle bells, frosty the snowman, etc. Parties just have a fun craft or game, etc. Unless your school is in a very rural/non diverse area, there are plenty of kids that don't celebrate, not just Jewish kids.
When I said separation of church and state, I was referring to a previous post which claimed there is an actual curriculum that requires young students to learn about all religions so they can "choose" one-- I highly doubt that is happening in an American public school. Seriously, all a parent or teacher would have to do is contact the ACLU and it would be shut down so quickly heads would spin.

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