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Satmar Rabbi Aaron teitelbaum declares war on DOE
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Dec 05 2018, 11:45 am
amother wrote:
do you realize that my husband can hardly find a Jewish worker. This, in Brooklyn where
tens of thousands orthodox Jewish men live?
Most of the chasidish men he deals with are his hundreds of vendors, insurance man, his commercial machine suppliers who oversee their non-Jewish repair men, plumbers , electrician and contractor.

Can you find me a Jewish worker that he is willing to pay $3000 a week to help him manage the business?


My husband would be interested in this job.
Can you post an email address where he can send his resume?
Thanks
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tweek




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 05 2018, 11:50 am
Amother puce. Excellent points!
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InnerMe




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 05 2018, 11:50 am
tweek wrote:
Amother puce. Excellent points!


I agree. And so well articulated!
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Dec 05 2018, 12:02 pm
Another huge fan of amother puce!
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Dec 05 2018, 3:10 pm
amother wrote:
Source for the quote about Niflaos Haborei? And where does it say that admiring flowers and trees is insufficient to marvel at Hashem's creation? Is one only able to see Gadlus Haborei in flowers if she is able to identify the stamens and the fibonacci petal patterns and explain how photosynthesis works?

As far as the Gemaras, that doesn't contradict what I said at all. If you are learning about how to make bread, you need to learn how wheat grows. Then the knowledge is relevant and necessary and immediately part of your Torah learning.

I also am very curious as to which secular studies curriculum you took part in, which addressed gestation lengths of reptiles, the genus of different varieties of moss, or how to differentiate qualities and types of silk. Those are specialized topics, and you learn them if they are your business, your expertise, or part of your Torah learning. Not the "standard foundation" being discussed here.



You are over-complicating what I said. I was merely illustrating, how most of what we consider 'Limudi Chol', is really Torah.
Many Gedolim held like that , such as Avraham ben HaRambam, the Tiferes Yisroel, R SRH, R Hildersheimer, R Breuer, and numerous others.
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amother




Sienna


Post  Wed, Dec 05 2018, 3:51 pm
amother wrote:
I hope you won't mind, but I will use your post to demonstrate how people assume that their personal experience is enough evidence to disprove claims.

Firstly, the ability to communicate is dependent on language. And language is dependent on the one spoken in the country. For parnassah sake, being only able to communicate with their peers is wholly insufficient. Being able to communicate with the working world is key. Now, I don't know what skills your husband and known relatives possessed at 18, but in my family, the men at 18 can't communicate well enough to fill out medical forms, marriage licenses and instructional booklets. They splutter and stutter to string together some English words when they're forced to communicate with someone outside of their peers. I doubt anyone can consider that to be 'quality education'. Maybe in your circles this doesn't exist, but in my circles this does. So just like I cannot use my circle to disprove that there are Chassidim who are properly versed in English, you cannot use your circle to disprove that there aren't Chassidim who cannot converse, or function with the use of the English language.

Secondly, your post automatically assumes that all men are created equal and are wired the same way, (same way as your husband is). Everyone learns differently. Some are visual learners, some are auditory, some are conceptual, some are tactical, some learn by inducing, some by deducing etc. So if you take a group of men with no education, and throw them in the deep end, some will have the instincts to float to the top. They are those who learn conceptually, are able to deduce back to the basics. They can easily extrapolate details from it and build all the way around it. But then are those who can only induce, they need to work from the bottom up. They can't easily extrapolate from an environment, they need to have a foundation of which to build upon, and then they flourish from there. Both sets of guys are equally intelligent, its just the way they are wired. Now do they deserve to drown, because their natural instincts are different than the other group?

A good QUALITY EDUCATION imports all different kinds of learning. There is the reading, the auditory lectures, the explanations, the visuals, the diagrams, hands-on-experimentation, etc. It is purposely made to be very inclusive so that all different kinds of minds can learn
& employ the information. The system we have set up is inherently exclusive, where we focus on only one kind of mind and one kind of outcome, and ignore the rest. We cannot expect all men to find their footing without any education, because Hashem created them all differently. Some will, many won't. Its totally unfair to ignore those who won't, just because there are some who will.

And this runs along the same topic of only teaching our boys Gemara. There are boys who have Gemara Kops, analytical heads and thrive in this setting. But what about the boys who have logical, mathematical minds, or those with technical minds, or creative minds? Why are we just pretending that they don't exist, or in many cases, labeling them as weaker kids?

Bottom line - a good quality education is defined as being inclusive of society as possible, and giving the kids the tools how to navigate life both spiritually and physically. Our educational systems fails on both accounts.


So well-articulated!
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amother




Slategray


Post  Wed, Dec 05 2018, 4:00 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
You are over-complicating what I said. I was merely illustrating, how most of what we consider 'Limudi Chol', is really Torah.
Many Gedolim held like that , such as Avraham ben HaRambam, the Tiferes Yisroel, R SRH, R Hildersheimer, R Breuer, and numerous others.

Sorry, then I misunderstood. I know that some Gedolim do consider secular subjects even as standalone subjects to be Torah, but I thought you were attributing that to the Rambam, Ramban, et al. In this issue, we follow different Gedolim.
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whewpy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:14 pm
A couple of points-

Bobov has not done regents for boys in many years. In fact, like all the other chassidish yeshivas, English studies go thru eighth grade when they become bar mitzva

The law is currently that private school curriculums must be comparable to public school. The new law was giving specific criteria. All these have no connection to whether your school gets government money or not. You are required to teach children specific things, regardless. If
You can't, they can close down ur school, even if u never took a penny from the government.
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amother




Red


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:20 pm
I don't think they can close down your school. What they can do is say that your yeshiva is not considered a school.
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whewpy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:30 pm
I have a question to all parents who send to satmar yeshivas and satmar type yeshivas. We all agree the yeshivas are not teaching adequate science, geography etc. Some chassidish yeshivas teach more, some less. However, all yeshivas, including all satmar yeshivas in williamsburg, boro. Park, Monroe, Monsey do teach English classes until bar mitzva, which is eighth grade. All are taught basic reading, writing and math. Its true its at the end of the day and most kids are tired. However, that is usually not the issue.

Have u asked ur child if he has English, math homework...did u go to English pta? Did I make ur child aware that her responsible to study and do well on his English tests? Do u hold him accountable for a good English report card? Have u contacted the English teacher to find out how ur child is doing and what u can do to help him so well?

I am part of this community, I send my children to these mosdos and if ur saying that u want ur kids to learn the basic reading, writing and math, well, they are being taught that. Are u doing ur part, are u showing ur child that this is important to learn?!?

I find it inexcusable for a normal intelligent adult man, who went to satmar/satmar type yeshiva to have to practice c -a -t, with the excuse me never learnt it and yeshiva is at fault...you know why, because they were taught to read and write...they just didn't bother learning because no one showed them they have to!

Again, I am part of this community so no one can tell me these sob stories, how the terrible yeshiva said its forbidden to learn basics...by and large, the kids from families whose parents expect them to learn English, do

Don't mean to be harsh, but all those satmar parents basing satmar, need to look inward and see where the blame really lies
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whewpy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:33 pm
Red, if they say ur school is not a school, then all the parents sending there are considered that there kids are truant. U get a choice to switch to a different school or take risk cps can be called. Of course, all this is done when they want to make a point. Generally, they're too busy to bother...
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asmileaday




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:35 pm
I'm curious as to why you felt a need to revive a 19 page thread.
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crust




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:42 pm
asmileaday wrote:
I'm curious as to why you felt a need to revive a 19 page thread.


So it can become a 20 page thread.
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whewpy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:47 pm
Because it popped up on my feed today and didn't notice its an old thread. Lol
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amother




Gold


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 10:00 pm
whewpy wrote:
I have a question to all parents who send to satmar yeshivas and satmar type yeshivas. We all agree the yeshivas are not teaching adequate science, geography etc. Some chassidish yeshivas teach more, some less. However, all yeshivas, including all satmar yeshivas in williamsburg, boro. Park, Monroe, Monsey do teach English classes until bar mitzva, which is eighth grade. All are taught basic reading, writing and math. Its true its at the end of the day and most kids are tired. However, that is usually not the issue.

Have u asked ur child if he has English, math homework...did u go to English pta? Did I make ur child aware that her responsible to study and do well on his English tests? Do u hold him accountable for a good English report card? Have u contacted the English teacher to find out how ur child is doing and what u can do to help him so well?

I am part of this community, I send my children to these mosdos and if ur saying that u want ur kids to learn the basic reading, writing and math, well, they are being taught that. Are u doing ur part, are u showing ur child that this is important to learn?!?

I find it inexcusable for a normal intelligent adult man, who went to satmar/satmar type yeshiva to have to practice c -a -t, with the excuse me never learnt it and yeshiva is at fault...you know why, because they were taught to read and write...they just didn't bother learning because no one showed them they have to!

Again, I am part of this community so no one can tell me these sob stories, how the terrible yeshiva said its forbidden to learn basics...by and large, the kids from families whose parents expect them to learn English, do

Don't mean to be harsh, but all those satmar parents basing satmar, need to look inward and see where the blame really lies


I agree with you 1000%. A close relative of mine was English principal for many years in one of the satmar cheders you listed above.
He didn't speak a word of English. But his job was to make sure (or they his best) to see to it that the kids had derech eretz for the teachers and the kids should learn.
His sons all had a decent English when they finished with Kita tes. And now, as they are all adults some of them have as good a comprehension and vocabulary and fluency of the language as native speaker.... English wasn't spoken at home. But they knew they had to "behave" themselves and listen. Cuz totty is coming around to check on them. And they did.

I have nephews who have pretty decent English language skills and some who are pathetic. (There is even both in one family....) It depends on a child. It depends on the mother. (One of them officially skipped English for 2 years straight.)
But the cheder is DEFINITELY providing the teachers and the opertunity to learn.
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 10:27 pm
My boys arent in satmar. Theyre in a neutral heimish chassidish type yeshiva in bp where the english education should be better. The secular education is terrible. It has nothing to do with the “type of child” or “the type of mother”! We take it seriously and my children would if they were given the opportunity.
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ladYdI




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 11:26 pm
Do any schools in bp still give English after bar mitzvah? I only know of novominsk that’s not really chasdidush and vyelipol from Flatbush has a nice amount of chasdidish boys
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 11:50 pm
whewpy wrote:
I have a question to all parents who send to satmar yeshivas and satmar type yeshivas. We all agree the yeshivas are not teaching adequate science, geography etc. Some chassidish yeshivas teach more, some less. However, all yeshivas, including all satmar yeshivas in williamsburg, boro. Park, Monroe, Monsey do teach English classes until bar mitzva, which is eighth grade. All are taught basic reading, writing and math. Its true its at the end of the day and most kids are tired. However, that is usually not the issue.

Have u asked ur child if he has English, math homework...did u go to English pta? Did I make ur child aware that her responsible to study and do well on his English tests? Do u hold him accountable for a good English report card? Have u contacted the English teacher to find out how ur child is doing and what u can do to help him so well?

I am part of this community, I send my children to these mosdos and if ur saying that u want ur kids to learn the basic reading, writing and math, well, they are being taught that. Are u doing ur part, are u showing ur child that this is important to learn?!?

I find it inexcusable for a normal intelligent adult man, who went to satmar/satmar type yeshiva to have to practice c -a -t, with the excuse me never learnt it and yeshiva is at fault...you know why, because they were taught to read and write...they just didn't bother learning because no one showed them they have to!

Again, I am part of this community so no one can tell me these sob stories, how the terrible yeshiva said its forbidden to learn basics...by and large, the kids from families whose parents expect them to learn English, do

Don't mean to be harsh, but all those satmar parents basing satmar, need to look inward and see where the blame really lies


I just want to clarify one thing - there is one Chassidus that does not teach English at all and it's not Satmar. Marina has been very vocal about the injustice of that, perhaps this is the yeshiva she is referring to.
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aricelli




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jun 12 2019, 7:08 am
ladYdI wrote:
Do any schools in bp still give English after bar mitzvah? I only know of novominsk that’s not really chasdidush and vyelipol from Flatbush has a nice amount of chasdidish boys

Mivakshei hashem recently opened a yeshiva and they teach english with optional regents classes
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aricelli




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jun 12 2019, 7:09 am
Novominsk has chassidish boys as well
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