Davening. Why so fast?

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Petra

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 2:13 pm

On a rare occasion, I was able to walk to shul with my husband last Shabbos. This is much earlier than my usual time. Actually, I don't think I have ever made it there so early before. But, I was disappointed. The chazan rushed so quickly through morning blessings, I couldn't keep up. It was so distracting. Shul starts later on Shabbos so I know there is a time line to make to get to Shema in time. But regardless, what is the point of rushing like that? It literally is merely to just check it off the "to do" list.

amother

Periwinkle

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 2:24 pm

Somewhere, someone is complaining that davening was too slow. It's individual, and although we daven communally, everyone has a different optimal speed. There's a shul out there with slower davening, I'm sure.

thunderstorm

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 2:27 pm

I tend to complain about this too, while my DH will say it was the perfect speed.
And the times I say I loved this Baal tefillah because he was not too fast or too slow and DH will say, that he was farshlepped the entire davening and aggravated everyone... we can't please everyone .

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 2:30 pm

I'm fine with the pace of davening in most shuls I've been in, except at the end. Why is it that after mussaf, there is suddenly this mad rush to finish? I don't know how it's humanly possible to move your lips that quickly (never mind concentrating on any meaning.....) I've found this to be an almost universal issue.

amother

Slategray

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 3:10 pm

Chayalle wrote:

This, and karbanos. Waaay too fast.

rovh613

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 3:13 pm

My husband always says weekday minyan is too fast.

PinkFridge

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 3:48 pm

On Shabbos I go to a yeshiva minyan that is pretty slow. I time my getting there for a certain point where I'm usually caught up by Shemone Esrei. But yes, after before krias haTorah and after Aleinu it's pretty standard timing. I hadn't said those parts of tefilla but decided to as they're beautiful and it took me a long time to get some measure of fluency to keep up.

animeme

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 4:10 pm

Many shuls just expect you to be where they are at barchu. Other than kaddish, you don't need a minyan before that. So the understanding is that you will show up at whatever time you need to start and get there in time. Some men will come 15 minutes before scheduled time, some ten minutes late. Some minyanim only schedule barchu, vs start time.

As for other times in davening, I have always adapted what I say to the time provided. It helps that I'm a girl. But dh says he needs a minyan that moves, or he spaces out.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 4:23 pm

Petra wrote:

It is so normal. Something that is done 2 or 3 times a day, takes a good many minutes to complete, ends up falling into something that is being checked off a to do list. Its extremely hard to be able to present the proper kavanah for shachris, mincha, maariv, 7 days a week, and for the half hour/hour, or 2 hours (shabbos) it takes. I'm pretty sure most people have their unique moments, when they give it its a full due.

I've often wondered about this. Is this the preferred way? Is the better for anyone to rattle off a laundry list of prayers prepared by others, that may or may not have meaning to you, or is it better to speak your heart directly to Hashem with whatever words come to mind at the moment?

PinkFridge

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 7:34 pm

amother wrote:

This was just last week's parasha, where Yaakov talks about "b'charbi ub'kashti," which is explained to refer to the different forms of tefilla. They're both valuable.

And obviously we don't want to stay in rote mode, and we do want our tefillos to have some depth (thank you Artscroll/Koren/other!!!) but rote/rut is valuable too. It keeps the motor oiled for when we're more receptive to have kavanah.

amother

Sienna

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 8:00 pm

My DH will only daven with a fast minyan.
He describes his own feelings as a slow minyan being stuck in a traffic jam. You know what you want to say and how but then it gets slow you lose focus.
I used to be a little shocked at the speed of his minyan until I realized this is how he connects to Hashem. He really daven very deeply.

rachelmom1

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 8:05 pm

Just interesting that amother "Sienna" draws the comparison to a traffic jam :-)

amother wrote:

amother

Mustard

Wed, Dec 26 2018, 8:37 pm

You’re cordially invited to join my dh minyan. The Baal Tefillah is certifiably OCD (not OTD) and it takes him literally half an hour to say Shema. Plus he seems to believe there’s a minimum number of hours that minyan should take, so if the person saying brochos or psookay dezimra is on the expeditious side, he’ll compensate by drawing out shachris that much longer. If it’s a short parsha he’ll drag out moosaf to make up for it. They get out later than any minyan around and makes it very unpleasant to invite guests from normal minyanim that finished an hour and a half earlier. It also means we don’t get invited places because no one wants to wait around for an hour or so till we get there.

imasoftov

Thu, Dec 27 2018, 12:07 pm

Berachot 34a

תנו רבנן מעשה בתלמיד אחד שירד לפני התיבה בפני רבי אליעזר והיה מאריך יותר מדאי אמרו לו תלמידיו כמה ארכן הוא זה אמר להם כלום מאריך יותר ממשה רבינו דכתיב ביה את ארבעים היום ואת ארבעים הלילה וגו׳

The Sages taught: There was an incident where one student descended to serve as prayer leader before the ark in the presence of Rabbi Eliezer, and he was excessively prolonging his prayer. His students complained and said to him: How long-winded he is. He said to them: Is this student prolonging his prayer any more than Moshe our teacher did? As about Moshe it is written: “And I prostrated myself before the Lord for the forty days and forty nights that I prostrated myself” (Devarim 9:25).

שוב מעשה בתלמיד אחד שירד לפני התיבה בפני רבי אליעזר והיה מקצר יותר מדאי אמרו לו תלמידיו כמה קצרן הוא זה אמר להם כלום מקצר יותר ממשה רבינו דכתיב אל נא רפא נא לה

There was again an incident where one student descended to serve as prayer leader before the ark in the presence of Rabbi Eliezer, and he was excessively abbreviating his prayer. His students protested and said to him: How brief is his prayer. He said to them: Is he abbreviating his prayer any more than Moshe our teacher did? As it is written with regard to the prayer Moshe recited imploring God to cure Miriam of her leprosy: “And Moshe cried out to the Lord, saying: ‘Please, God, heal her, please’” (Bamidbar12:13).

But practially, if the shaliach tzibbur is too fast for you, skip some things. You can say them later on if you want. Or do what a teacher of mine told me he did when he first began to daven with the adults, the first week he'd say one paragraph, after he eventually was able to keep up, he'd add a second paragraph, and so on until he was able to daven together with everyone else.

lech lecha08

Thu, Dec 27 2018, 3:11 pm

My FIL has a joke that with a horse race, everyone starts at the same time and finishes at different times. Davening, everyone starts at different times and finishes together.

PinkFridge

Thu, Dec 27 2018, 4:16 pm

There was an old Light story IIRC name Shteeblechase by Zvi Zobin which I'm looking for but can't find.

zaq

Thu, Dec 27 2018, 4:45 pm

lech lecha08 wrote:

My FIL has a joke that with a horse race, everyone starts at the same time and finishes at different times. Davening, everyone starts at different times and finishes together.

Cute!

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