Son had a fight in school

nchr

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 12:59 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Because shooting is the same thing as a punch in the face?

Because hitting, under any and all circumstances, is wrong. They should both be suspended, but the bully should be for longer because it is a repeat offense. Normal schools have a no tolerance policy for bullying and for physical violence. When someone cuts you off, you dont rear end them, you dont even stick your middle finger up. When someone cuts you in line you dont spit at them. When you have a disagreement with your husband you dont kick him.

And I never equated hitting to shooting. I equated your rationale of the school had their chance now it's my turn. It's not. We aren't vigilantes. We follow the rules and live by the law.. law of the land.. law of the school. Etc. We do not take matters into our own hands unless we've been designated as the care taker.

I feel very bad for OPs son, but she asked if hitting was out of line and yes, it was. I dont think she should punish her son, although the school may, but she should definitely provide him with better coping skills because hitting is never acceptable.

little neshamala

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:02 pm

OP, it might be true that "violence is never the answer", but at the end of the day if thats the only thing that works....then it is the answer.

As a chuld my husband was in a yeshiva that didnt appropriately manage childrens wrong behavior. So because he was very little, he was constantly picked on. That could shatter a child. The Rebbeim and hanhala just couldnt deal with it appropriately, and it continued-until the day my husband just let them have it. The biggest bully started shoving him around again, and my husband just let loose with all the energy he had, punching and kicking....he says from that day on nobody tried anything. He was never bullied again.

My bottom line: if my son ch"v was enduring the same abuse as your son, my answer would depend on whih yeshiva he went to. If he was in the yeshiva hes in now, which is PHENOMENAL at dealing with situations like these, and protects all victims and stops bullying at all costs, I wouldnt recommend violence, because I trust the school to help.
But if my son was in a yeshiva like the one my husband went to, and he was a victim of such abuse without appropriate help from the mechanchim, then there is no choice. He has to fight, in order to make it stop. It NEEDS to stop, whatever it takes.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:05 pm

nchr wrote:

I strongly disagree with your view, but aside from that, HOW CAN SHE PUNISH HER SON? Her husband told him to punch the boy. He was just listening to his father.

dancingqueen

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:05 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Defend your son to the end. Good for him. If you call someone fatso you deserve a punch in the face.

I often agree with you, but do you really believe that mommy3? I think calling someone a fatso is abhorrent but punching someone in the FACE is also abhorrent. Both boys deserve a consequence.

Op does your sons school have a guidance counselor or other mental health professional? Intervention is needed here it seems.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:06 pm

little neshamala wrote:

THIS!!!!!!!

nchr

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:23 pm

Mommy3b is being deliberately antagonistic. I think everyone here can agree that OPs son was in an unbearable situation, that the bully needs to be dealt with, the school needs to step up, and that OPs son should not have used physical violence and should be given better coping tools.

little neshamala

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:30 pm

nchr wrote:

I dont think shes being deliberately antagonistic....and enough people liked her post, that shows enough people do not agree that he shouldnt have resorted to physical violence.

little neshamala

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:33 pm

nchr wrote:

I think everyone here agrees on this.
The problem is there are MANY yeshivas/chedarim who simply do not step up appropriately. This is not debatable, it is the fact.

Now once your child's school is not adressing the situation, and your child's self esteem is being blown to bits, is it appropriate to use physical violence in order to end the abuse?

Yes. Yes it is.

amother

Papaya

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:37 pm

little neshamala wrote:

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that there are other successful ways to empower children and end bullying, without the school's involvement and without resorting to violence in the future?

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:37 pm

little neshamala wrote:

Would you feel comfortable sharing the phenomenal yeshiva?

nchr

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:42 pm

little neshamala wrote:

No. It is not. There are other ways to address bullying without resorting to unacceptable behavior such as hitting. If the school is not on board, then maybe discuss it with a mental health professional, police department (not a police report but about education), contact the parents, empower your child, etc. Why resort to violence? And why is that acceptable to the vast majority of posters here?

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:47 pm

amother wrote:

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that there are other successful ways to empower children and end bullying, without the school's involvement and without resorting to violence in the future?

If “those other ways” were so simple, there would be no bullying. Think about it. Usually, if the child has the skills to implement those other ways, then they are not getting bullied in the first place.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:49 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

If someone calls you a fatso one time in an argument then a punch in the face is wrong. If someone is repeatedly tormenting and abusing you, then a punch in the face is exactly what he deserves. And in this particular case, ops son cannot be punished, he was listening to what his father told him to do.

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:52 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

The school I attended, which was not Jewish had no bullying. I think the worst was pretend clicks for a day or two that faded away. We respected one another, including those who were skinny, larger, short, tall, pretty, straight a student's, quirky, etc. There was one child who called children names in Kindergarten and he was not welcome back in first grade. Someone also made fun of someone in a note and both girls were suspended for a week and wrote apology letters to the girl and to the entire class. We had programs on bullying. We didnt make fun of names or call them yunchy. And wow. We werent religious and many were not even Jewish yet the middos far exceeded what is being described here. Educate your kids and you wont have to deal with this. As much as the school is to blame so are the parents.

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:55 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Why would a school take this into consideration? OP shouldn't punish her son and should explain to the school what happened including the dad's advice, but the school will need to take action because punching another student in the face is unacceptable. Likewise, the bully will probably be punished as well because he is not only the instigator but a repeat offender

creditcards

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 1:58 pm

amother wrote:

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that there are other successful ways to empower children and end bullying, without the school's involvement and without resorting to violence in the future?

Because not always there is. Not all kids are capable of answering the right things and using whatever other coping skills you are thinking of. And if they are not they should defend themselves with whatever way they are capable of.