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Shiva House is Open House for Crazy People
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amother




Ruby


Post  Wed, Jan 23 2019, 11:16 pm
I know it's been said already, but I cannot say it enough.

acemom wrote:
How about:

-Don't use the shiva call as an opportunity to "meet the family"....


When I sat Shiva I was miserable. Several married women stopped by to pay a Shiva call. They sat in the back talking LOUDLY to each other, got up and left without a word to any of the mourners. And this repeated itself EVERY SINGLE DAY! I couldn't ask any of them to leave because that would be RUDE! Twisted Evil I'm sure they are so proud that they did a big Mitzvah!
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amother




Coral


Post  Wed, Jan 23 2019, 11:52 pm
So sorry for your loss.

You absolutely can ask people to leave. Often, a family member who is not sitting shiva is there to run things. Part of his or her duties is to keep the visitors in line.

A simple "thank you for coming" will get rid of all but the most clueless. And for the clueless ones, there's nothing wrong with directly asking them to leave. Really.
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gold21




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:50 am
amother wrote:
So sorry for your loss.

You absolutely can ask people to leave. Often, a family member who is not sitting shiva is there to run things. Part of his or her duties is to keep the visitors in line.

A simple "thank you for coming" will get rid of all but the most clueless. And for the clueless ones, there's nothing wrong with directly asking them to leave. Really.


Agree
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 6:35 am
amother wrote:
So sorry for your loss.

You absolutely can ask people to leave. Often, a family member who is not sitting shiva is there to run things. Part of his or her duties is to keep the visitors in line.

A simple "thank you for coming" will get rid of all but the most clueless. And for the clueless ones, there's nothing wrong with directly asking them to leave. Really.


Was just going to say this. Mourners need a designated "shomer" who is not afraid to be the bad guy/girl and keep things respectful.

I am so sorry for your loss.
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 6:53 am
I agree aboutt he shomer. Unfortunately it's rare to manage to have a non shiva sitter every day etc
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amother




Coral


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 7:41 am
Ruchel wrote:
I agree aboutt he shomer. Unfortunately it's rare to manage to have a non shiva sitter every day etc


This is a great chessed you can do for someone who is sitting - offer to "manage" for a few hours.
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 7:46 am
It will not cover a week morning to afternoon. There are many times when there is no one except the shiva sitting
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singleagain




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 7:48 am
That's awful. I just saw a story about twin social media stars who lost their father and felt so awful that they had to publicly state to their fans not to come to the dad's funeral, wake, memorial or anything like that unless they were invited... Bc crazed internet ppl we're trying to arrange to go to those personal events in a "duty" to support the twins/meet them for the first time.... It was truly mind boggling how insensitive ppl can be

( If anyone is interested: These Famous YouTuber Twins Had To Tell Their Fans Not To Come To Their Dad's Funeral https://www.buzzfeed.com/brade.....vr0ljM6wo1 )
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amother




Lavender


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 8:07 am
How I wish I had had the intestinal fortitude to ask people to leave who were hanging around for hours late at night! We posted times, till 9 pm. People would come in at 8.59 and stay till 11.30. They felt perfectly justified since they came before 9! It was horrible. A real imposition.

FTR I feel the same about bikur Cholim ladies who visit you in the hospital. They’re well meaning, but total strangers, and if I’m in hospital then struggling to make conversation with people I don’t know from Eve is about the last thing I want to do. And not helping my recovery any, either.
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 8:24 am
The bikur cholim shouldn't come if you don't call for it
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 9:09 am
Ruchel wrote:
The bikur cholim shouldn't come if you don't call for it


Quite . Not all visitors are “official “ from the Bikur Cholim society. Some are stam local ladies who think they’re doing a big mitzvah.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 9:22 am
If you don't want someone in your hospital room, or to stay late after shiva hours, just say "I'm really tired and need to get my sleep. I'm going to take a nap/go to bed now. Thank you for visiting."
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amother




Azure


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 9:23 am
This is a clip of trying to get rid of an inappropriate mourner. Hysterical.


https://youtu.be/jfDyTUiL8xs

And of course there's this classic:

https://youtu.be/pGxOR5bQavs
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amother




Plum


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 10:33 am
First of all I so feel for you in your difficult time - I know what it's like to lose a near and loved one. One of my parents was niftar when I was in my late teens, so that's close enough to know.

Unfortunately, there are people who were born without the sense of tact and sensitivity.
If one tries to explain it to them they won't know what you're talking about and might even counter attack.

It takes a professional to "open their eyes" first to what they are missing.
Explain what tact and sensitivity is and if one lacks it how one can offend or hurt people, and vice/versa - if one is blessed with it how one can help and make the other person happy e.t.c
Then teach the tactless/sensitivity-less person how to inculcate it in her/himself and use it in their daily life.
That can only be done if the person realizes what s/he is lacking and wants to gain this new (to her/im) insight.

I feel that being born with the middah/sense of tact and sensitivity is a real great Blessing from Hashem.
________
Dear OP: I know that in a time of grieving when sitting shivah and even after shivah ends.... it's very difficult to think what I wrote above.

I actually wrote the above for all circumstances when tact and sensitivity would be needed.

I do agree with the posters who suggested that in a shivah house there should be someone managing the visitors.
I don't agree that one should actually send them out (that would be tactless and offensive) unless they are really rowdy and disturbing, but in a firm and pleasant voice ask them to speak softer, or really not speak at all amongst themselves b/c it disturbs the people who are sitting shivah.
_____________________

Perhaps a large clear note can be taped on the wall in the shivah room, with e.g. written on it -

- kindly do not chat with other visitors.

- think before you say something to the person sitting shivah - if you're comment is appropriate and not hurtful.

- please do not pry or ask private questions.

e.t.c e.t.c I'm sure other posters have more suggestions what could be written on the note.

May Hashem Bless all of Klal Yisrael with only simcha mitoch simcha.

OP dear, my heart goes out to you. I'm holding your hand.
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amother




Sapphire


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 10:55 am
This conversation is very interesting to me. I’ve sat shiva for 2 bio parents and more recently adoptive parent. Shiva is always “interesting”- to put it mildly,
The idea to have a shiva monitor is getting me thinking. I have some extra time on my hands right now and I’m searching for something meaningful to do. Perhaps this would be a nice chessed to offer in my community...and to take it even further.. so many people who sit shiva struggle with so much innapropriateness.(is there such a word??!!)
I know there may be a book or two out there, but what if we/I could start some sort of coaching service to train shiva monitors with thought and sensitivity.??
Tell me your thoughts??. . .
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Inspire




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 11:49 am
Just to comment on an impression that may have been left about the Bikur Cholim ladies...I had a hospital stay during which these wonderful ladies visited multiple times. I appreciated every visitor, and especially those with the exceptional talent to chat with a complete stranger as though we had known each other all along. Many years later I still marvel at the skill and chesed of these ladies. So not everyone feels their chesed is a burden.
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rainbow dash




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:25 pm
When I sat a year ago for my dad, I didn't use the sms service for sending to the whole town cause noone knows my dad as my parents got divorced when I was a baby and he moved to South Africa and I had nothing to do with him. I posted on my FB page and Jewish WhatsApp group from here. This way I only had my friends. But of course my sil thought to do a chessed and tell everyone she knows who I don't.
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amother




Maroon


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:56 pm
amother wrote:
How I wish I had had the intestinal fortitude to ask people to leave who were hanging around for hours late at night! We posted times, till 9 pm. People would come in at 8.59 and stay till 11.30. They felt perfectly justified since they came before 9! It was horrible. A real imposition.

FTR I feel the same about bikur Cholim ladies who visit you in the hospital. They’re well meaning, but total strangers, and if I’m in hospital then struggling to make conversation with people I don’t know from Eve is about the last thing I want to do. And not helping my recovery any, either.
we appreciated the bikur cholim ladies so much that we donate 500 a year to the organization
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 1:49 pm
There are halachas about what to do in a beis ovel as well as in the beis cholim but many people are unaware of them.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:07 pm
amother wrote:
I know it's been said already, but I cannot say it enough.

When I sat Shiva I was miserable. Several married women stopped by to pay a Shiva call. They sat in the back talking LOUDLY to each other, got up and left without a word to any of the mourners. And this repeated itself EVERY SINGLE DAY! I couldn't ask any of them to leave because that would be RUDE! Twisted Evil I'm sure they are so proud that they did a big Mitzvah!


Yup, I experienced the same and it made me so sad to think my mother’s neshama was being disrespected by these people who behaved as if it was a social gathering, talking about movies they saw, laughing, talking loudly on their cell phones, walking right past me to talk to my dh, etc. After one such particularly awful incident, we hung up a sign asking people to kindly keep their conversations limited to discussion of the Nifteres.
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