How do I explain? | Imamother

amother

Gold

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 7:57 pm

My 18 year old dd does not dress appropriately according to my tznius standards. How can I explain that to my 8 year old dd who wants to dress like her big sister? Obviously I want to do so in a way that doesn't put down my older dd.

naturalmom5

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 8:02 pm

amother wrote:

IMVHO... I think the bolded speaks volumes...

mom!

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 8:19 pm

amother wrote:

Hugs OP. Must be super challenging. This is a sensitive topic, is there someone professional you can consult with?

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 8:54 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

IMVHO... I think the bolded speaks volumes...

I really think this is uncalled for. This is the simplest way for the op to express the issue.

A parent is allowed to have standards and it sounds like she is flexible enough for the child that needs it.

Posters really need to learn to be nicer. This is not what people come here for.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 9:26 pm

aimhabanim wrote:

Thanks!!! I couldn't have said it better myself!

We women should be supportive of each other. When someone posts something like this, it has probably been festering for a while. It finally reaches a point where they are in need of real support or advice and they work up the courage to post it here, since they most likely only have a limited amount of people they can discuss it with in real life.

The last thing they need is someone questioning their wording and even worse pointing fingers and accusing them, when they have no knowledge of what has been going on.....

OP, I have no advice for you, but I at least want you to know that most women here sympathize and have your back.

amother

Silver

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 9:29 pm

amother wrote:

Happy someone called that out. That comment rubbed me the wrong way too ... natural mom why dont u take it down ?

OutATowner

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 9:37 pm

OP, I think it is great that you are sensitive to your older daughter's feelings in this situation. You sound like a great mother.
While I can't give professional advice, I think that you can build your 8yo dd's pride in yuddishkeit in general. Make it something that she wants to do. Not only tznius but an overall approach to following minhagim.
For tznius specifically, go on a special trip and buy tznius clothes with her and compliment her. But NOT on inches and necklines, but "wow dd, you look so sophisticated/besutiful ....in that." If she thinks your older dd looks great in other things, find something within your guidelines that will make your 8yo dd happy in.

lucky14

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 10:21 pm

to the OP: It's amazing how you are thinking about your older daughter's feelings while trying to figure out how to deal with this specific situation.
I don't have any suggestions or advice but really hope you are able to find some guidance. This much be such a hard situation to be in.

(I would have been that older sibling btw... though in my case there was no super younger sister. I really am impressed with how you see it's important to be sensitive to the older daughter).

groisamomma

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 10:27 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

IMVHO... I think the bolded speaks volumes...

IMO your comment speaks volumes...and not about the OP. Can you put your bitterness aside for once and commiserate with someone in need of support, even if you think you get to decide what problems people should have? I'm sorry (NOT) if the came across too strongly. The women on this board have finally had enough. We all know you went through struggles with your children in Lakewood, you hate the town (except the Moroccan kollel, I know), and you feel there's something wrong with anyone trying to live the yeshivish lifestyle.

You know what? We ALL have problems, and believe it or not many of us Lakewooders carry resentment for the exact same people and establishments as you. But you know what else? We put that aside to support another mother going through something hard in her life. We don't use our personal bitterness as a soapbox to give mussar and pour salt on another woman's wounds.

You just don't stop. Every time I see your username in a thread my stomach drops. When will you stop already? I'm going to call you out on this every time I see it bli neder.

Now go ahead and report my post for a personal attack. Whatever.

Edited for typos.

Last edited by groisamomma on Sun, Jan 27 2019, 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

groisamomma

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 10:41 pm

OP, you sound like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Without putting your older dd down directly, I think you need to give your 8-year-old a clear message that you don't agree with her choices. Skirting the issue will probably confuse her. She's only 8.

I know this might sound unconventional but when dd asked for a certain jacket her friend has (a child whose clothes are not on our standards) I told her we're not getting that jacket but she can choose another one that's more aidel from that same company. She did, and was happy. Same thing happened with sneakers last year. She got the message that she has to wear more aidel clothing without looking down at her friend. It's a parent's right to uphold their standards within their home and I think the chinuch of your 8-year-old necessitates that you point out what they are. You're not trashing older dd, you are taking her feelings into account, but at the same time if you won't say it, what's to stop your little one from making the same choices as her sister?

ETA if you live in Lakewood, I've never gotten bad advice when I called the Bais Horaah. It's not a halacha issue, I know, but I call for all sorts of chinuch questions and the answers and suggestions I get are always on target.

amother

Plum

Sun, Jan 27 2019, 10:44 pm

amother wrote:

You don’t need to explain. I had this situation with my DDs. My youngest just then took on board that you wear tznius clothes and didn’t judge her older sister for wearing different ones. It worked well for us.

naturalmom5

Mon, Jan 28 2019, 12:52 am

Explanation requested... Fair enough..
What everyone read here. NM5 is mocking someone or something once again...
What was actually said, based on TOO MUCH life experience..
If you try to force your adult child to accept rigid haskafas for social acceptance or narrow interpetations of halacha that only certain communities follow, you may be very disapointed with the results. Attack me all you want, but then speak to any Rov who deals with at-risk teens, for guidance.

salt

Mon, Jan 28 2019, 1:56 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

Where did OP say she wants to force her adult child to accept rigid hashkafot? Quite the opposite.
She wants to let her 18 year old dress as she wants, and wants to try and keep her 8 year old still dressing a little more modestly, without hurting her 18 year old with various explanations to her 8 year old.

amother

Brown

Mon, Jan 28 2019, 3:06 am

I am dealing with this plus more.

DD19 lives at home. Doesn’t dress the way I would like. Barely helps out with chores. Younger DD sees how she acts and I’m scared that she will soon start to say “why do I have to help?” And “why can’t I wear pants?”

DS17 doesn’t keep Shabbos. It’s supposed to stay contained in his room but younger DD knows what’s going on in his room.
DS13 sometimes sneaks in his room when there’s a video playing.

[sigh]

Metukah

Mon, Jan 28 2019, 3:47 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

If your posts were truly out of care and concern, they wouldn't be so sarcastic and jabbing.

You just have a bone to pick with EVERYONE and don't care what victims you mow down on the way.

As salt mentioned above op was not asking for advice pertaining to her 18yo and didn't say she was trying to change her, but, if you had decided to notice that, you wouldn't manage to make op's pain even more painful? That wouldn't do, would it?