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Help me understand my 4 year old
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:36 am
hi, can I assume that 4 yr olds have no common sense. I asked my dd where do dirty plastic cups go? and she cant answer me. for over an hour I keep asking and she says on the counter, in the sink and none of those are the things I taught her. am I being too fussy? if your a professional and you can clue me in here I would really appreciate it.
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:40 am
This is something a 4 year old should know, if these cups are used frequently enough around her. My 3 year old knows that his things go in the garbage (not that he always does it himself...)

Are you certain she was being serious? One of my children likes to play dumb when I ask her questions. Sometimes she really does fool me.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:43 am
I dont know what to make of this. she is hard to get sometimes. im a little worried because she does these weird every so often. she does have praxis but I dont see how this is connected at all.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:50 am
Keep modeling the correct behavior for her, and at the same time say "The cups go ___" wherever you want her to put them. Some kids need more repetition combined with verbal cues.

Teenagers and husbands tend to not know where dirty socks go, so don't get worried just yet!
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Fabulous




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:51 am
Yeah, I don’t mean to worry you but my 18 month old often knows it goes in the garbage too
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:54 am
while I hear you trying to calm me, frantic frummie, she keeps doing weird things like this. it stumps me to be 4 yrs old and not have an answer when I keep asking. but I wont stress.

I would love to know from people who have knowledge in developement of children if this makes sense.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:56 am
could it be that she saw me too upset that she just cant get it in her head? like I was shocked when she couldnt answer. so I kind of asked "you dont know where it goes?!" she does tend to freeze when I get a little upset with her.

does any of this make sense? freezing when I ask her a surprised question?
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amother




Papaya


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:57 am
Kids love to play their mom crazy .
My 10 year old can do such Things, but then there’s the smirk on the corner of the face which she doesn’t realize that I could see
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:59 am
amother wrote:
while I hear you trying to calm me, frantic frummie, she keeps doing weird things like this. it stumps me to be 4 yrs old and not have an answer when I keep asking. but I wont stress.

I would love to know from people who have knowledge in developement of children if this makes sense.


Do you have other examples of things she does? Can she follow verbal, multi-step directions (I.e. Put your shoes in your room and then bring down your hairbrush)? Does she sometimes seem to not be able to hear you?

If you have a number of concerns, I would get her evaluated to be certain. A hearing screening is important, and a speech-language evaluation, as well. There could be a processing issue or a receptive language issue.
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imasinger




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:03 am
Try prompting and praising rather than asking, especially in a critical tone Let's assume you wanted them in the garbage.

"The dirty cups go in the gar___.... Hurray! You remembered and did it, you're such a good helper!"

Rather than, "Don't you remember where dirty cups go?!"

As to the bigger issue as to whether or not there may be a diagnosable problem, please consult with her morahs and your pediatrician.
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amother




Green


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:06 am
I have a child with some development delays who exhibited similar behaviors. Speech therapy has been helpful. our therapist introduced us to errorless teaching which has been really effective in getting results without anxiety and stress.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:10 am
amother wrote:
I have a child with some development delays who exhibited similar behaviors. Speech therapy has been helpful. our therapist introduced us to errorless teaching which has been really effective in getting results without anxiety and stress.


she does have receptive language delay. explain how that has a connection with this. she had a therapist but I wasnt too happy with her and im looking for someone else. meantime she doesnt have any. what are good pointers to avoid this. im really looking to hear what you have to say. thanks a lot
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:15 am
ok she does have receptive/expressive language delay. and praxis. I dont know what to do about this type of issue. I didnt see how this delay is connected with that particular problem she has. but in the future I will write down these types of examples to show the speech therapist and see what she has to say.

in the meantime if anyone can help me I would really appreciate it. I dont mean complicated stuff but some pointers would definitely be welcome. thank you
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:27 am
amother wrote:
ok she does have receptive/expressive language delay. and praxis. I dont know what to do about this type of issue. I didnt see how this delay is connected with that particular problem she has. but in the future I will write down these types of examples to show the speech therapist and see what she has to say.

in the meantime if anyone can help me I would really appreciate it. I dont mean complicated stuff but some pointers would definitely be welcome. thank you


Receptive language is understanding what is spoken or written. When you speak to her, she might not understand what you are saying. The key is to avoid getting frustrated and try to use less complex language. You said that for an hour you were asking her where the cups go...this is frustrating for the both of you. She might not understand what you are asking. Give her verbal or visual cues. Start off the answer for her, or show her something that can help her answer the question. When you ask her a question or give her directions, use simple language. Just like you don't use long sentences with a 2 year old, because they won't understand you, try to keep your sentences short and to the point with her.

You said she also has an expressive language delay. This means she has trouble expressing herself. And by praxis I'm assuming you mean apraxia of speech. She has difficulty getting her sounds and words out. So sometimes she may know the answer, but she has trouble articulating it. Please be patient. Imagine you're in a country where a foreign language is spoken, and you can only speak and understand a little of it. Wouldn't it be frustrating to try and communicate? Like I said, guide her if she's having difficulty expressing herself or answering a question. Don't make everything a test.

By all means, keep track of issues you have at home and show it to the SLP. And if you are unhappy with your therapist, look to find a new one. She definitely should be having these issues addressed. The younger, the better.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:39 am
no she doesnt have apraxia of speech. she has praxis which is something else. it means she has no ideation. it means she has no ideation in many areas., which include no idea what to do in issues she has problems with. if someone in school pushes her she doenst know what to do. after getting ot help she is better. but her speech is quite delayed.
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amother




Green


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:40 am
praxis is not speech apraxia.

this might help you understand and definitely fits into the example u provided:

Praxis is latin for ‘doing, acting’ but these two simple words do not give justice to the complex series of events that one’s body must coordinate in order to produce praxis. Praxis is the neurological process by which cognition directs motor action (Ayres, 1985). Put simply, it involves planning what to do and how to do it. In order to know what to do, we must first conceive the idea of what to do (ideation), then plan how we are going to do it (motor organisation, or motor planning), perform the movement correctly (execution) and then be able to reflect on feedback so we can adapt our movements in the future (feedback and adaptation).

Each of these four areas are quite complex within themselves. For example, in order to be able to plan or organise movements, we need to have a good sense of where our body is in space (body awareness), we need to have the cognitive ability to understand our actions and objects in the environment, we need to have good bilateral coordination in order to execute movements smoothly and we need problem solving skills to help us correct/adapt our movements in the future.

So praxis is a complex, multi-step process that we often take for granted because it happens automatically (on an sub-conscious level). But how would we know if our children are having difficulties with praxis? Below are some examples:

Slow to achieve developmental milestones
Avoid tasks requiring good manual dexterity (eg. puzzles, intricate construction or fine motor tasks such as writing and cutting)
Clumsiness (eg. constantly bumping into things or falling over)
Messy eaters (may not be aware of food around face and continues to feed with fingers)
Difficulty riding a bike
Lack of or limited imaginative play
Difficulties coordinating both hands together (eg. managing fastenings)
Difficulties during physical education
High levels of movement, limited concentration
Slow to complete class work
Problems with self-help skills such as using cutlery, dressing or tying shoelaces
Difficulty forming relationships with peers, sometimes preferring company of adults
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amother




Navy


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:46 am
amother wrote:
no she doesnt have apraxia of speech. she has praxis which is something else. it means she has no ideation. it means she has no ideation in many areas., which include no idea what to do in issues she has problems with. if someone in school pushes her she doenst know what to do. after getting ot help she is better. but her speech is quite delayed.


She doesn't have praxis, she has difficulties with praxis. So your op makes a lot of sense in that context, and if you continue therapy you should see steady improvement.
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 10:50 am
amother wrote:
praxis is not speech apraxia.

this might help you understand and definitely fits into the example u provided:

Praxis is latin for ‘doing, acting’ but these two simple words do not give justice to the complex series of events that one’s body must coordinate in order to produce praxis. Praxis is the neurological process by which cognition directs motor action (Ayres, 1985). Put simply, it involves planning what to do and how to do it. In order to know what to do, we must first conceive the idea of what to do (ideation), then plan how we are going to do it (motor organisation, or motor planning), perform the movement correctly (execution) and then be able to reflect on feedback so we can adapt our movements in the future (feedback and adaptation).

Each of these four areas are quite complex within themselves. For example, in order to be able to plan or organise movements, we need to have a good sense of where our body is in space (body awareness), we need to have the cognitive ability to understand our actions and objects in the environment, we need to have good bilateral coordination in order to execute movements smoothly and we need problem solving skills to help us correct/adapt our movements in the future.

So praxis is a complex, multi-step process that we often take for granted because it happens automatically (on an sub-conscious level). But how would we know if our children are having difficulties with praxis? Below are some examples:

Slow to achieve developmental milestones
Avoid tasks requiring good manual dexterity (eg. puzzles, intricate construction or fine motor tasks such as writing and cutting)
Clumsiness (eg. constantly bumping into things or falling over)
Messy eaters (may not be aware of food around face and continues to feed with fingers)
Difficulty riding a bike
Lack of or limited imaginative play
Difficulties coordinating both hands together (eg. managing fastenings)
Difficulties during physical education
High levels of movement, limited concentration
Slow to complete class work
Problems with self-help skills such as using cutlery, dressing or tying shoelaces
Difficulty forming relationships with peers, sometimes preferring company of adults


Interesting. Apraxia is a difficulty with praxis. So I'm assuming this is more of a motor apraxia affecting all her limbs, as opposed to oral apraxia or apraxia of speech, which affect the mouth. I'm an SLP, not an OT.

Either way, an expressive/receptive language delay thrown in the mix is also making things complicated. She can't think through throwing away her cup, and she also has difficulty answering your questions about it. Yes, OP, please get her speech and OT to work these things through. Intervention at an earlier age can really do amazing things!
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 11:28 am
amother wrote:
praxis is not speech apraxia.

this might help you understand and definitely fits into the example u provided:

Praxis is latin for ‘doing, acting’ but these two simple words do not give justice to the complex series of events that one’s body must coordinate in order to produce praxis. Praxis is the neurological process by which cognition directs motor action (Ayres, 1985). Put simply, it involves planning what to do and how to do it. In order to know what to do, we must first conceive the idea of what to do (ideation), then plan how we are going to do it (motor organisation, or motor planning), perform the movement correctly (execution) and then be able to reflect on feedback so we can adapt our movements in the future (feedback and adaptation).

Each of these four areas are quite complex within themselves. For example, in order to be able to plan or organise movements, we need to have a good sense of where our body is in space (body awareness), we need to have the cognitive ability to understand our actions and objects in the environment, we need to have good bilateral coordination in order to execute movements smoothly and we need problem solving skills to help us correct/adapt our movements in the future.

So praxis is a complex, multi-step process that we often take for granted because it happens automatically (on an sub-conscious level). But how would we know if our children are having difficulties with praxis? Below are some examples:

Slow to achieve developmental milestones
Avoid tasks requiring good manual dexterity (eg. puzzles, intricate construction or fine motor tasks such as writing and cutting)
Clumsiness (eg. constantly bumping into things or falling over)
Messy eaters (may not be aware of food around face and continues to feed with fingers)
Difficulty riding a bike
Lack of or limited imaginative play
Difficulties coordinating both hands together (eg. managing fastenings)
Difficulties during physical education
High levels of movement, limited concentration
Slow to complete class work
Problems with self-help skills such as using cutlery, dressing or tying shoelaces
Difficulty forming relationships with peers, sometimes preferring company of adults



[b]all the above you wrote I already read before. I didnt have any idea how all of what you wrote fit into my original question. body movement? what does this mean to effect my dd? all this fancy therapy language makes me very confused. and possibly therapists that know all this but fail to explain things to parents doesnt help them understand their childs delay. and makes them very clueless. this is my experience. hence the reason I came here to ask my original question.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, Jan 29 2019, 11:30 am
amother wrote:
Do you have other examples of things she does? Can she follow verbal, multi-step directions (I.e. Put your shoes in your room and then bring down your hairbrush)? Does she sometimes seem to not be able to hear you?

If you have a number of concerns, I would get her evaluated to be certain. A hearing screening is important, and a speech-language evaluation, as well. There could be a processing issue or a receptive language issue.


you are quite right on the button. thanks for taking out the time to explain things. I was very confused.
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