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Buying a house I can't really afford
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amother




Chartreuse


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:21 am
I need to little clarity here. We are looking to buy a house. Realistically, on paper we can only afford a house tops 300k. Houses in that price range are obviously very very small with not much living space. technically a house we'd buy for that price would be smaller or the same size as the apartment I'm living in currently which we are popping out of.

DH decided that we should start looking at buying a larger home which would range at about 375-400k.

(not actual numbers but you get the picture. We are talking about a difference of a good few hundred dollars each month of mortgage payments which would altogether be very tight)

he says we'd borrow some money for the larger down payment and somehow we'll pull together the monthly mortgage payments. I honestly don't know how that will happen. he says he'll look for side jobs at night to increase our monthly income and we'll just have to make it work. he says nothing on paper makes sense anyways.

he says he can't live in a little hovel all his life and we just have to do what make sense and Hashem will help with the rest.

I keep saying that its just too bad. if you can only afford a small house then that's what you make do with and plenty people manage even if its not easy and spacious.

what should I do to convince him otherwise etc? I'm at a loss right now as too where to go...?
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doctorima




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:24 am
A mortgage isn't something you can just take on an extra job at night to cover. It's a liability for the next 30 years. If you don't have the money, it's imprudent to take on that much debt, and you may not even be approved for it based on your documented income.

Perhaps suggest meeting with a mortgage lender, or a financial planner, to discuss your realistic options. I don't know where you're looking, but are there houses with rentable basements that could bring in some extra rental income to help cover the higher mortgage?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:25 am
amother wrote:
I need to little clarity here. We are looking to buy a house. Realistically, on paper we can only afford a house tops 300k. Houses in that price range are obviously very very small with not much living space. technically a house we'd buy for that price would be smaller or the same size as the apartment I'm living in currently which we are popping out of.

DH decided that we should start looking at buying a larger home which would range at about 375-400k.

(not actual numbers but you get the picture. We are talking about a difference of a good few hundred dollars each month of mortgage payments which would altogether be very tight)

he says we'd borrow some money for the larger down payment and somehow we'll pull together the monthly mortgage payments. I honestly don't know how that will happen. he says he'll look for side jobs at night to increase our monthly income and we'll just have to make it work. he says nothing on paper makes sense anyways.

he says he can't live in a little hovel all his life and we just have to do what make sense and Hashem will help with the rest.

I keep saying that its just too bad. if you can only afford a small house then that's what you make do with and plenty people manage even if its not easy and spacious.

what should I do to convince him otherwise etc? I'm at a loss right now as too where to go...?


Is there any particular reason that you need to buy now, as opposed to buying in 6 months?

Tell him that its a great idea, let's see how it works. You get some side jobs, we'll try to economize, we'll see if we can have the mortgage payment every month. Maybe it works great. Maybe it doesn't.

Remind him that house ownership comes with emergencies. What happens when a pipe bursts, or a roof leaks, or the sewage line between your house and the street breaks (yeah, that's your responsibility). You need some cushion for those things.

Also remind him that buying a house is not forever. When your income grows, you can trade up.
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watergirl




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:26 am
What makes your husband think you will be approved for a mortgage for more than you can afford? They look at all of your financial information very carefully before approving.

Would you consider moving to a community with cheaper housing?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:28 am
watergirl wrote:
What makes your husband think you will be approved for a mortgage for more than you can afford? They look at all of your financial information very carefully before approving.

Would you consider moving to a community with cheaper housing?


Yes, I should have said that as well.
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ellacoe




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:29 am
There is a great non profit. Savvy Ladies, they give free financial advice to women.

https://www.savvyladies.org
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:38 am
Whatever you decide - be honest on your mortgage application.
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amother




Brown


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:38 am
When we were looking to buy, DH asked his Rav who told him that if it makes sense on paper 80% then go for it. There's a certain amount that you need to have bitachon. I've heard from many people who bought and said that on paper the numbers didn't add up but once you buy and live there, you figure out how to make it work. Somehow, Hashem sends a bracha, you get a raise, you tighten your belt a bit more, etc.
This has been our experience BH.
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Kiwi13




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:40 am
I think it's fine to push yourselves a little bit in order to get into a bigger/better house. Many times that ends up being beneficial as income increases and housing values rise, but only if it's workable. We bought a house that's a bit more than we could comfortably afford (we qualified for the mortgage, but it was close) and we had to shift our budget to make it work. In our case it was a "now or never" kind of thing. Housing costs are rising faster than our income and there aren't any realistic rental options in our neighborhood. BUT, if buying the house would have meant financial ruin (ie. if we couldn't afford the mortgage, taxes, utilities, etc.) we wouldn't have done it.

What I'm saying is, if it's realistically doable, it might be worthwhile to do it even if it means reallocating your budget, doing without certain luxuries for a while, etc... but if it's going to break the bank and put you at risk of foreclosure or needing to skimp on essentials (basic groceries, utilities, etc.) then I wouldn't do it.

In general I'm not a huge fan of the "starter home" idea, but it depends on the area where you live and how long you're planning to stay in the house before trading up. Moving is expensive. Closing costs are expensive.

Good luck with your decision!
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amother




Firebrick


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:42 am
My friend's sister bought her house very early on in her marriage. She says they regretted it because they constantly had this enormous pressure to make the mortgage payments and they were always so tight. Looking back, they should have waited until they really were able to financially swing it, instead of saying oh lets do it right away and then we'll deal with it.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:49 am
amother wrote:
When we were looking to buy, DH asked his Rav who told him that if it makes sense on paper 80% then go for it. There's a certain amount that you need to have bitachon. I've heard from many people who bought and said that on paper the numbers didn't add up but once you buy and live there, you figure out how to make it work. Somehow, Hashem sends a bracha, you get a raise, you tighten your belt a bit more, etc.
This has been our experience BH.


Interesting idea. I thought we are not supposed to rely on miracles.....I know I'm not on level with the rav but maybe u presented the question to the rav differently....

but all ppl who say "go ahead buy it anyway it will work out" ...well, can u tell me the bracha??? What happened after that enabled u to afford it but couldn't afford before??? In my experience, yes our salaries our increasing bh but not as much as rising costs of food, tuition,household goods, dental work etc....

I know somene who "jumped in and just bought their house" and did rely on hashem but their house forclosed.....my mil told us we shld buy a bigger home not a smaller "starter home" but we know we wouldn't have been able to make the payments and are glad we didn't listen(she wasn't helping us and I didnt expect her to).
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amother




Brown


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:53 am
amother wrote:
Interesting idea. I thought we are not supposed to rely on miracles.....I know I'm not on level with the rav but maybe u presented the question to the rav differently....

but all ppl who say "go ahead buy it anyway it will work out" ...well, can u tell me the bracha??? What happened after that enabled u to afford it but couldn't afford before??? In my experience, yes our salaries our increasing bh but not as much as rising costs of food, tuition,household goods, dental work etc....

I know somene who "jumped in and just bought their house" and did rely on hashem but their house forclosed.....my mil told us we shld buy a bigger home not a smaller "starter home" but we know we wouldn't have been able to make the payments and are glad we didn't listen(she wasn't helping us and I didnt expect her to).

Honestly I can't tell you how it worked out. Yes DH got raised twice. I took on extra hours. I didn't have cleaning help for a year which we DID budget for before we bought. Somehow it balanced out.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:02 pm
Op, I agree with the poster who suggested to try ur dhs idea out...which is to let him get the side jobs and see how much money you would have each month and see if it matches the expected mortgage for the bigger house....

But, I am a fan of a starter home instead of a larger home u can't afford. The reason is that if something breaks, u need to have extra money to fix it. Also, u said the starter home is almost the same size as ur apt....so I think its better to buy a starter home rather than renting because this way your monthly mortgage stays fixed but rent keeps increasing. Also, once u buy, u will be putting ur money towards owning something and in the future, if u are earning more money, u can sell the starter home and use that money as a downpayment for the larger home u want.

I understand why ur dh doesn't want to wait because prices of houses are rising...but I'm not a fan of "just buy it and it'll work out"....many ppl who say that dont actually tell u their "secret" as to how it worked out....because ppl who are middle class and are struggling....well...prices of necessities are increasing faster than salaries for a lot of ppl....

But, I know someone who bought a starter home and wen they did make more money(which they couldn't predict before) then they paid off their starter home in around 7 yrs and then had all that money to use as a downpayment for a bigger house but if they had rented, they wouldn't have that...but it also depends on the neighborhood.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:07 pm
amother wrote:
Interesting idea. I thought we are not supposed to rely on miracles.....I know I'm not on level with the rav but maybe u presented the question to the rav differently....

but all ppl who say "go ahead buy it anyway it will work out" ...well, can u tell me the bracha??? What happened after that enabled u to afford it but couldn't afford before??? In my experience, yes our salaries our increasing bh but not as much as rising costs of food, tuition,household goods, dental work etc....

I know somene who "jumped in and just bought their house" and did rely on hashem but their house forclosed.....my mil told us we shld buy a bigger home not a smaller "starter home" but we know we wouldn't have been able to make the payments and are glad we didn't listen(she wasn't helping us and I didnt expect her to).


I can't tell you how it worked either. I am a practical person in general and a nervous wreck when I don't feel financially secure. I can only explain it that Hashem loves me.

Hashem sent several big chunks of money each time we needed it.

I settled a lawsuit after we lost at trial and won on appeal. 5 attorneys turned the case down and I wrote it off years before.

DH won a workmans comp case. His boss was a jerk and didn't pay him for 6 weeks. DH got back pay and a huge chunk of money for stress.

A relative, who never helped before, saw how nervous I was over a balloon payment and helped without me asking.

I got a project out of the blue and made a quick $5000 for like ten hours.

I was left $40,000 in an estate from a friend who I hadn't heard from in 12 years.
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amother




Chartreuse


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:21 pm
OP here.

Thank you so much everyone for your replies!!

The issue is that these starter homes are so small that with our 4 kids and iyh more to come eventually, in 4-5 years we'll be bursting at the seems and even now there's really not much breathing space at all. so I agree in theory with DH that a starter home is not so worthwhile, (the larger homes I'm talking about are not really mansions, but they are definitely roomier and something that we'll stay in forever IYH), but yeah, how am I paying an additional $500 monthly mortgage, plus pulling together another 50k for a down payment?

I guess I'm still confused. to the poster saying that Hashem just helped, that's what DH keeps saying that everyone is saying that to him. that it just works out.

I'm just stressed thinking about it! I guess this is also a vent Smile
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amother




Brown


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:46 pm
amother wrote:
OP here.

Thank you so much everyone for your replies!!

The issue is that these starter homes are so small that with our 4 kids and iyh more to come eventually, in 4-5 years we'll be bursting at the seems and even now there's really not much breathing space at all. so I agree in theory with DH that a starter home is not so worthwhile, (the larger homes I'm talking about are not really mansions, but they are definitely roomier and something that we'll stay in forever IYH), but yeah, how am I paying an additional $500 monthly mortgage, plus pulling together another 50k for a down payment?

I guess I'm still confused. to the poster saying that Hashem just helped, that's what DH keeps saying that everyone is saying that to him. that it just works out.

I'm just stressed thinking about it! I guess this is also a vent Smile

I know, we've been there. Not only that, now that DH sees how well we're managing he's regretting not having looked at bigger houses! But I don't regret it because we made a decision based on our income and expenses then.

Iy"H when we'll be able to, we'll consider moving to bigger. Otherwise, this house is definitely livable forever. I know people who raised 10 kids in my size house and we only have 4 (so far), so I'm not worried. We did look at it as a starter home that we need to be ok to live in forever which it qualifies.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:48 pm
OP, some people buy a house that costs more than they could afford if it comes with an apartment they could rent out. Renting out part of the house can help you cover the part that you initially couldn't afford. That's the only way I see it making sense.
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amother




Mauve


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:53 pm
We almost did, and then decided to play it safe. I'm so so so glad we made that choice! Yes, we see yad Hashem in our finances on a daily basis. Could it be that if we had a greater need He would provide more? Possibly. But we weren't comfortable relying that much on ongoing nissim. We bought a starter home about 9 years ago and were lucky enough to be gifted the down payment. We used some of our savings for closing costs (huge), moving costs, and minor very necessary renovations. We're still in that home because we still can't afford more. Is it is stressful living in such a small space? Yes, but the stress would be a million times worse in a bigger home with debt. BH we are free of debt and rely on Hashem to get through each month, in a normal way. We take on extra jobs, money comes from nowhere- there are always extra expenses, and we make it work. But I truly can't imagine being forced to come up with a thousand dollars or more each month on top of what we already do. It would kill us.
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amother




Mauve


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:54 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
OP, some people buy a house that costs more than they could afford if it comes with an apartment they could rent out. Renting out part of the house can help you cover the part that you initially couldn't afford. That's the only way I see it making sense.


But if you do that you must have a plan b for all the months of vacancy that you truly can't control (plus the costs associated with being a landlord). You can't skip mortgage payments just because the rental is vacant.
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amother




Tan


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 1:22 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
OP, some people buy a house that costs more than they could afford if it comes with an apartment they could rent out. Renting out part of the house can help you cover the part that you initially couldn't afford. That's the only way I see it making sense.


I have many neighbors that did this
Some of them were able to take back the apt after afew years
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